drug testing your teen...

[Luke T.]

I like John Bentley's responses the most in this topic so far.

The only way I would drug test my kid was if she stopped telling me about what was happening at the places she goes to.

Drug Test:

Where did you go?
Who were you with?

What did you do last night?



Boo

This raises an interesting point, I think. Isn't asking these questions also a "violation of trust/privacy?" And every parent asks them. It would be irresponsible not to.

A serious problem requires a serious action. And drugs and alcohol are a far more serious problem for teens than it is with adults, in my opinion. They are still on training wheels, and should be learning better coping skills than lighting up a joint when the stress is too much. They need to be laying better groundwork and establishing better habits than that.

You are cheating them if you don't do something about it.

 

[ReFLeX]

If only I knew why I've never felt the urge to go get wasted...

 

[mgidm86]

What ever happened to "tough love"? I would have no problem at all with covertly testing my kids.

Testing wouldn't be my first step, but I would rather have my kids alive and healthy than worry about being their "best friend" and losing their trust.

<general parenting rant>
Most parents I know who take a "best friend" approach with their kids have some pretty bratty kids, my nephew included. I think that, at least here in the States, there is an epidemic of bad parenting.

If you do it without their knowledge, then you are violating their trust in you whether they are aware of the violation or not. While I can certainly conceive of situations where drug testing your teen would be appropriate, I do have a problem with doing it covertly.

Meanwhile, your kids may be covertly smoking crack and breaking into my car in order to get it. So much for trust. I have absolutely no problem with testing, covert or random/up front. Parents...get control of your kids please!

Oh yeah, and the Harry Chapin song: Cat's in the Cradle.

Yep. In that song, the kid grew distant from his dad, because that's how his dad treated him. On the other hand, the kid isn't dead from an overdose. Maybe his dad tested him? hehe...

 

[egslim]

Most parents I know who take a "best friend" approach

It has nothing to do with "best friend", it's about leading by example. The example you set for your kids if you test them covertly is that it's alright to do something behind someones back, as long as they don't find out.

I think kids pay far more attention to the example you set for them than the things you say.

 

[drkitten]

It has nothing to do with "best friend", it's about leading by example. The example you set for your kids if you test them covertly is that it's alright to do something behind someones back, as long as they don't find out.

And similarly, by testing them in the first place, you're telling them that they're not trustworthy.

Children have a remarkable ability to become what their parents tell them to be.

Do you want to tell them not to be trustworthy?

 

[egslim]

And similarly, by testing them in the first place, you're telling them that they're not trustworthy.

On the other hand, if they lied to you about not using drugs you're right to tell them they're not trustworthy.

Edited to add:
Of course it depends on the nature of their druguse. If they've smoked a joint once or even got stoned it's still in their own power to end it. Kids will mess up once in a while, and it's always best if they solve it by themselves. Best to confirm your trust in them and expect them to live up to that.

But if it happens a second time shortly after and/or there are other signs, there is a distinct possibility the situation has got out of the kid's control and you as a parent need to step in.

 

[Beth]

And similarly, by testing them in the first place, you're telling them that they're not trustworthy.

Children have a remarkable ability to become what their parents tell them to be.

Do you want to tell them not to be trustworthy?

I agree that this is what you are telling them. However, depending on how the test is used, it may indeed be what you want to tell them - i.e. if it's reasonable to suspect drug use and you don't believe them when they deny it, then you don't believe them to be trustworthy. IMO, they should be aware of both your suspicions and your unwillingness to trust them. It's a relationship issue that needs to be dealt with along with the drug problem (assuming the parent is correct in their suspicions). I believe that it's a relatively common problem in dealing with drug addictions - the addict is NOT trustworthy.

Dealing with a drug addicted loved one would be a very difficult situation. Add in the fact that with so many divorces and remarriages in our society, a parent might be dealing with a stepchild and/or have custody only part of the time which add further complications into the situation. A drug test is one way of ascertaining the validity of suspicions and finding out what drugs are being used. I can see that it would be useful in certain situations. I hope that I'm never in a situation where I would consider using one, but I'll not say I'd never do so. One never knows what situations one might be faced with in the future.

 

[drkitten]

On the other hand, if they lied to you about not using drugs you're right to tell them they're not trustworthy.

That's, um, sort of my point.

If you already know they're lying to you about not using drugs, then you don't need to test.

And you have bigger problems than simply drug use.

 

[egslim]

If you already know they're lying to you about not using drugs, then you don't need to test.

Perhaps you do. Assuming they continue to lie, it boils down to your word against theirs. A positive test demonstrates clearly they can no longer lie their way out of it.
It's as much proof to you as it is proof to them that you really know.

And you have bigger problems than simply drug use.

Indeed.

 

[John Bentley]

And similarly, by testing them in the first place, you're telling them that they're not trustworthy.

Children have a remarkable ability to become what their parents tell them to be.

Do you want to tell them not to be trustworthy?

I wouldn't test my kids covertly. It would be very upfront, because I agree that being sneaky about it only lets them know that its OK to be sneaky. I would simply tell them that if they don't pee in a cup, I'll just get some of their hair from the hair brush.

drkitten, lets try a more concrete example:

drkitten enters her teenage daughter's room. The lights are out, and the kid is lying in her unmade bed. She is fully dressed in the same clothes she put on 3 days ago, and reeks of sweat and vomit, and drkitten also assumes that the urine smell is not from the dog. Drkitten reaches out and shakes her daughter gently, and the daughter shrieks, her eyes darting about the room as if something is about to jump out and attack her.

Drkitten: "Honey, I can't stand to see you like this. Please tell me what's wrong."

Kid: "Nothing, mom. I'm fine, leave me alone"

Drkitten: "It's obviously not nothing, honey. I'm really worried about you. You haven't eaten in 3 days. You haven't even come out of your room. Please tell me."

Kid: Sullen silence, then quiet tears.

Drkitten: "Honey, are you taking drugs, is that it?"

Kid: "No mom. It's nothing like that, I promise. I just can't tell you what's wrong."

Drkitten sighs and starts to pick up her daughter's room in what even to her is an obvious attempt to distract herself from her daughter's pain. She notices a corner of a ziploc bag sticking out from under the mattress, and pulls it out intending to throw it away with the rest of the trash. Inside the bag is a fine white powder and a glass pipe. Oh jeez, drugs!

Drkitten: "Honey, what is this?! Are you doing drugs?! Is this crank or crack or something?!"

Kid, highly agitated: "Give that back! You have no right to take that! I'm just holding it for someone else at school! Get out and leave me alone!!!"

Drkitten, knowing now that her daughter has a substance abuse problem, starts the ball rolling and for the next 6 months, her daughter is treated intensively as an outpatient by a psychiatrist. But her daughter is stubborn, and refuses to admit she has a drug problem, despite the obvious facts. However, she cannot or will not give any other reason for her obvious sudden deterioration. Then it becomes clear that her daughter is pregnant. It turns out that those drugs weren't her daughter's after all. She was holding them for a friend at school, just like she said. Her daughter actually had been raped by her boyfriend.

It really comes down to what you consider more important. Getting the right kind of help for your kid or maintaining their trust in you. The two may be mutually exclusive. I can hope to rebuild the trust, but my kid has to be alive to do it. You can't treat a problem effectively without knowing what the problem is. As egslim has pointed out, the kid could be going to hell for reasons other than drugs, so just assuming they have a drug problem without proof and directing your efforts toward that end would be worse than useless. If your kid had symptoms of a medical problem like diabetes, would you not demand a blood test even if the kid doesn't want one? If your kid was showing symptoms of a brain tumor that made him irrational, would you not insist on an MRI regardless what they thought or said? I don't really see the difference. Whether you consider drug use a purely psychological problem, or a medical disease, it shouldn't be treated any differently just because the kid doesn't want to admit to you that they have a problem.

 

[drkitten]

drkitten, lets try a more concrete example:

[...]

Drkitten: "Honey, are you taking drugs, is that it?"

Kid: "No mom. It's nothing like that, I promise. I just can't tell you what's wrong."

Not to put too fine a point on it.

But why the HELL did you bother to ask that question?

That's a stupid question to ask -- you already "knew" the answer, as proven by the fact that you rejected the answer she gave you.

Drkitten, knowing now that her daughter has a substance abuse problem, starts the ball rolling and for the next 6 months, her daughter is treated intensively as an outpatient by a psychiatrist. But her daughter is stubborn, and refuses to admit she has a drug problem, despite the obvious facts. However, she cannot or will not give any other reason for her obvious sudden deterioration.

Yup. Like I said, you've got a bigger problem than drugs.

Then it becomes clear that her daughter is pregnant. It turns out that those drugs weren't her daughter's after all. She was holding them for a friend at school, just like she said. Her daughter actually had been raped by her boyfriend.

The question you SHOULD have asked is "what's wrong?"

... or perhaps "why can't you tell me?"

... or perhaps just say "honey, you have to tell me, because you're hurting yourself and we have to figure out a way to make it better."

There are lots of responses.

And I think "Don't give me that guff, you lying little skank -- now go pee in this cup" is one of the worst of them.



Let's look at the situation a little more closely.

She's feeling badly (to put it mildly) because she's been raped by her boyfriend.

You asked if she was taking drugs. She said, truthfully, that she wasn't.

So now you test her for drugs.

Because it's not bad enough that her boyfriend doesn't love and respect her. You've now shown her that YOU don't love and respect her, either. You're calling her an untrustworthy little liar.

 

[zooloo]

I feel their list of "Signs and Symptoms" describes pretty much a normal teenager's behaviour.

 

[John Bentley]

I didn't make this story up, just changed the details a little to protect those involved, and condensed the time line a good bit for the sake of brevity.

Not to put too fine a point on it.

But why the HELL did you bother to ask that question?

That's a stupid question to ask -- you already "knew" the answer, as proven by the fact that you rejected the answer she gave you.

OK, now you're just being silly. The parent asked the question because she wanted to know what was wrong, and rejected the answer given only after finding drugs and drug paraphenalia hidden in her daughter's room. Are you seriously going to tell me that you would have let your daughter's lame "I'm only holding them for a friend" excuse go at face value? You would have just said: "OK, great, now that that's out of the way, we can move on."

Yup. Like I said, you've got a bigger problem than drugs.

Exactly, but that wasn't discovered until much later because no one bothered to drug test the daughter.

The question you SHOULD have asked is "what's wrong?"

... or perhaps "why can't you tell me?"

... or perhaps just say "honey, you have to tell me, because you're hurting yourself and we have to figure out a way to make it better."

There are lots of responses.

I reiterate:
Drkitten: "Honey, I can't stand to see you like this. Please tell me what's wrong."

Kid: "Nothing, mom. I'm fine, leave me alone"

Drkitten: "It's obviously not nothing, honey. I'm really worried about you. You haven't eaten in 3 days. You haven't even come out of your room. Please tell me."

And I think "Don't give me that guff, you lying little skank -- now go pee in this cup" is one of the worst of them.

Straw man. No concerned parent is going to talk to their kid like that. But you might say:
"I'm sorry honey, but I can see you are involved in drugs in some way or another because I've got a bagful right here in my hand. I'm not sure I can believe you, because you aren't acting rationally. I'm going to have to insist we drug test you unless you can tell me what's going on."

Because it's not bad enough that her boyfriend doesn't love and respect her. You've now shown her that YOU don't love and respect her, either. You're calling her an untrustworthy little liar.

Horsefeathers. I've made a decision to rule in or rule out one obvious reason for her behavior that agrees with all the objective evidence at hand. Given the same situation, I would probably assume the same thing. Drug addicts lie, especially about their drug use, so the fact that she denies she has a problem can't be given much weight. Sure it may piss her off that I don't believe her, but it would have saved time better spent on her real problem. That parent assumed her daughter had a drug problem without bothering to confirm it. Sure it turned out that she was telling the truth, but the parent couldn't have known that at the time.

 

[drkitten]

Straw man. No concerned parent is going to talk to their kid like that.

You're right. You're not going to say that.

But in the circumstances, what do you think the hypothetical daughter will hear?

Words are funny things that way. The same words can mean two entirely different things to two people in the same room.

In the circumstances -- holding the bag of drugs in your hand -- I think you're entitled to insist upon an answer to the question "what's wrong." If she won't answer you, then SHE's the one breaking faith with YOU (and you can point this out to her, if necessary).

Are you seriously going to tell me that you would have let your daughter's lame "I'm only holding them for a friend" excuse go at face value? You would have just said: "OK, great, now that that's out of the way, we can move on."

I would hope so. If we can move on -- and get to a discussion of what's really wrong.

I would like to hope that my hypothetical daughter is smart enough to know just how lame that explanation sounds. I'd like to hope that she's smart enough not to deny that all the evidence points to there being a problem.

In which case, we can have one of two discussions.

We can discuss the question "did you just lie to me?," or we can discuss the question "what is the problem?"

And I'd much rather discuss the second -- and I hope so would she.

 

[G-K-4]

I am quite surprised that this discussion has gone for two whole pages and no one (mind you, I've skimmed some entries), no one has mentioned criminal prosecution.

I assume that most of you live under political jurisdictions which prohibit the use or possession of some list of controlled substances. Under what circumstances would you report your children to the State for violation of these laws?

 

[drkitten]

I assume that most of you live under political jurisdictions which prohibit the use or possession of some list of controlled substances. Under what circumstances would you report your children to the State for violation of these laws?

At the point where she was a danger to herself or to others -- and I couldn't find a less intrusive solution.

Not living in Ohio, I don't have any obligation to tell the State a thing. I could watch someone being shot out my window, not bother to mention it, and be legally in the clear.

 

[Beth]

I am quite surprised that this discussion has gone for two whole pages and no one (mind you, I've skimmed some entries), no one has mentioned criminal prosecution.

I assume that most of you live under political jurisdictions which prohibit the use or possession of some list of controlled substances. Under what circumstances would you report your children to the State for violation of these laws?

Never

 

[Jerry_ex_machina]

Oh, why does it have to come to this? After digesting this post it seems to talk to a bigger issue. Wether you believe a little grass is a good or a bad thing, if you have a stable relationship with your kids, a drug test wouldn't be necessary. Now, if my kid were doing hard core stuff like heroin I'd know. The symptoms are there. That's a dangerous drug that requires medical and psychological treatment.

If I smelled a little weed on the breath I'd say, "Bubba that's weed on your breath. If you get caught, you go to jail. You don't need that headache. And if you wrech that car, you're in deep with me, etc." I'm not stupid, I've rolled more than my share, but the drug test is so damn draconian why risk a relationship when there are better pathways to dealing with a problem.

 

[Jerry_ex_machina]

Never

Agreed. I would never turn my kids into the cops. I see most drug use as a victimless crime, with the exception of drug use that causes harm viz-a-viz DWI, etc. The prison system doesn't cure drug use/addiction.