drug testing your teen...

[ReFLeX]

That is also a very common joke relating to teenagers in general. If you don't know that most kids (any age) lie when it suits them, you either don't have kids or believe the lies.

If mature adults had parents who treated them the same way parents treat teenagers I don't know that there would be that much of a difference. It's clearly a joke but it's incorrect if we're seriously discussing lying behaviour. You can't just say "all teenagers are liars" just because they're prone to poor judgment. You need more evidence.

 

[fishbob]

A generalization. From what I know about reason, it's a good one. Do you disagree with it or are you just baiting me?

I am just baiting you. Your humor deficit makes it hard to resist.

 

[ReFLeX]

I am just baiting you. Your humor deficit makes it hard to resist.

Your first post appeared in earnest to me. As a joke, it's not all that funny. I am apparently sensitive on the subject.

 

[Rob Lister]

Now, my moral delimma is shared with my wife. We sit on our front porch swing at night, after the kids are asleep, asking one another how best to handle the situation should it arise. I sip my beer. She, her wine. We share a couple of tokes during the discussion.

 

[Tailgater]

Now, my moral delimma is shared with my wife. We sit on our front porch swing at night, after the kids are asleep, asking one another how best to handle the situation should it arise. I sip my beer. She, her wine. We share a couple of tokes during the discussion.

My parents did the same. The next day, my brother and I would raid the stash and smoke-out after school. To be young again....

 

[John Bentley]

The problem that I see is that the drug testing doesn't actually do anything here except prove to all parties that you don't trust your children.

If your child's grades are slipping, &c,. then there is a problem.

Do you need to test for drugs to know that there's a problem?

Do you need to test for drugs in order to know how to handle the problem?

How will the results of the test influence your behavior one way or another?

No. Yes. It will allow me to hopefully do something about the cause of the destructive behavior rather than the symptoms.

 

[John Bentley]

However, if the test returns negative then you still have no idea what's going on. Worse, you just proved you don't trust your child, so he/she is far less likely to tell you what actually is wrong.

Assuming you want to help your child, it's irrelevant wether they owe you an explanation, the question is will they give you one.

You have a point, but I don't think any kid who is displaying classic signs of drug dependence is going to get bent out of shape because I suspect them of drug use. It would be more likely that they are pissed that I refused to allow them to manipulate me with guilt and angst, even when the evidence is clear. However, it's not like I would just go up to them and demand they pee in a cup as my first approach.

Your second point merely reinforces why drug testing may be necessary. It is unlikely that they would tell you they are doing drugs if you make it plain that drugs are unacceptable in your family. If the test is negative, and they can't or wont' explain their behavior, then the next stop would probably be the shrink to find out why the kid is doing a Howard Hughes impression without the benefit of mood altering substances.

 

[egslim]

You have a point, but I don't think any kid who is displaying classic signs of drug dependence is going to get bent out of shape because I suspect them of drug use.

Depends on wether they actually used drugs, or wether you misinterpreted the signs. People with emotional difficulties are unlikely to emphatise with others' points of view. They will just consider their trust in you damaged.

How about if your child has been sexually abused and displays deviant behaviour because of that? A parent may conceivably misinterpret the signs as pointing to drugabuse and conduct a test. As you know, rape victims are reluctant to come forward even to people they trust.

then the next stop would probably be the shrink

Perhaps, but I'd be careful with that. Shrinks can only help people who want to be helped. If you send your child there against his/er will it'll do no good. At least that's my experience.

 

[Didaktylos]

That is also a very common joke relating to teenagers in general. If you don't know that most kids (any age) lie when it suits them, you either don't have kids or believe the lies.

Er ... kids don't lie to their parents - they lie back to them.

 

[John Bentley]

Depends on wether they actually used drugs, or wether you misinterpreted the signs. People with emotional difficulties are unlikely to emphatise with others' points of view. They will just consider their trust in you damaged.

I concede that point. But I don't see any alternative if they won't talk and all the signs are there. It may be necessary to, in their eyes, abuse their trust in order to help them, then hope you can rebuild it when their outlook becomes more rational. I'd be happy to consider alternatives if you have them.

How about if your child has been sexually abused and displays deviant behaviour because of that? A parent may conceivably misinterpret the signs as pointing to drugabuse and conduct a test. As you know, rape victims are reluctant to come forward even to people they trust.

Wow. Hadn't thought of that. You're just full of parental nightmares, aren't you? Still, eliminating causes seems to be the only alternative I can think of.

Perhaps, but I'd be careful with that. Shrinks can only help people who want to be helped. If you send your child there against his/er will it'll do no good. At least that's my experience.

My experience, too. Right now, blaming the parent for all the child's problems seems to be in vogue with the shrinks. At least where I reside. Guess I would resort to more detective work first. Talk to friends, other parents, teachers, etc. before going the pee in a cup route. But I would still reserve it as a last resort.

 

[John Bentley]

Er ... kids don't lie to their parents - they lie back to them.

Jeez. You guys must have had some stellar parents. I don't lie to my kids about anything important. A promise is never given unless you are absolutely sure you won't break it. My word is my bond, and my kids know it. It's kind of cute, actually, to see them try to weedle my promise out for something they want, because they know it's as good as done if they get my word. I started asking for their word in small things when they were about 5 years old, in situations where I could make sure they kept it, and they all understand what it means. If I think they are lying about something, I ask for their promise, and many is the time when they wouldn't give it. They also understand that it is cowardly to lie to get out of trouble, and their punishment will be more prolonged and/or more serious if they lie about what they did. Honor, fairness, and justice actually mean something in my house, and are discussed openly in relation to the news and their daily lives. Doesn't anybody do this anymore, or am I all alone out here?

 

[drkitten]

Jeez. You guys must have had some stellar parents. I don't lie to my kids about anything important.

I'm sure they don't lie to you about anything important, either.

The problem is that you might not agree with them about what is important.

 

[egslim]

I concede that point. But I don't see any alternative if they won't talk and all the signs are there. It may be necessary to, in their eyes, abuse their trust in order to help them, then hope you can rebuild it when their outlook becomes more rational. I'd be happy to consider alternatives if you have them.

Not knowing much about drugeffects, I would probably first consult a professional on how to recognise symptoms, to reduce the chance of me misinterpreting them.
If you ask them if they use drugs, they lie no and you test them positive, then the shame is on them. I agree in that case the test was a good idea.
My issues with the drugtest are in case the result is negative. I would first try to decrease the chance for that possibility as much as possible through other means, and if it occurs anyway do my best to make amends. Because then the shame is on me, for not believing them.

Wow. Hadn't thought of that. You're just full of parental nightmares, aren't you? Still, eliminating causes seems to be the only alternative I can think of.

Sorry about that. On the other hand, drugs are only one of many things that can happen to a teen. Perhaps the "War on Drugs" makes some parents place too much emphasis on one danger, to the detriment of others. I wonder how many parents have a rapekit at home, as opposed to a drugkit. Not to mention a first-aid kit.

Guess I would resort to more detective work first. Talk to friends, other parents, teachers, etc. before going the pee in a cup route. But I would still reserve it as a last resort.

I agree. To that list I would add their brothers/sisters, a physician and a psychologist. And I would probably raid the local library/bookstore for information on the subject.

If you suspect they used drugs once or twice, an offhand remark about some junkie and how proud you are your kids don't use drugs may work too. In that case, if you are wrong no harm is done.

 

[John Bentley]

I'm sure they don't lie to you about anything important, either.

The problem is that you might not agree with them about what is important.

I didn't go into that in my other post, because it was getting kind of long. My wife and I have closed that loophole as well as we can by starting discussions with examples about what is trivial and what is important. A recent such discussion was about the difference between saying that you had brushed your teeth this morning when you hadn't, and saying that you were at a friend's house when you were really cruising the mall. We then get into what exactly makes the two situations different. The youngest predictably thinks that lying about either one is equally bad, whereas the oldest is beginning to grasp the difference. So far, we have refined it to: its important if it puts you or others in potential danger, or could get others in trouble. We have also had the discussion that if one of the parties considers the topic important, then they deserve an honest answer. Our house frequently resounds with cries by our oldest telling our youngest "but this is IMPORTANT". You can hear the capital letters in his voice.

 

[John Bentley]

Not knowing much about drugeffects, I would probably first consult a professional on how to recognise symptoms, to reduce the chance of me misinterpreting them.

Done already.

And I would probably raid the local library/bookstore for information on the subject.

Done.

If you suspect they used drugs once or twice, an offhand remark about some junkie and how proud you are your kids don't use drugs may work too. In that case, if you are wrong no harm is done.

Do this already with other things, and I can see where it might help with occasional drug use. Good point.

 

[egslim]

Done already.
Done.
Do this already with other things, and I can see where it might help with occasional drug use. Good point.

I think you take your parenting job a lot more seriously than many other parents.

Unfortunately, I also think many parents will use such a drugtest to make up for poor parenting efforts.

 

[bjb]

There is a way to run a drug test without your kid knowing about it. A hair sample taken from a comb or brush can be tested for drugs and your kid will never know about it:

http://www.craigmedical.com/Hair_Drug_Test.htm

So if it were possible to drug test your kid without violating their 'trust' in you, would you still do it?

 

[Beth]

There is a way to run a drug test without your kid knowing about it. A hair sample taken from a comb or brush can be tested for drugs and your kid will never know about it:

http://www.craigmedical.com/Hair_Drug_Test.htm

So if it were possible to drug test your kid without violating their 'trust' in you, would you still do it?

If you do it without their knowledge, then you are violating their trust in you whether they are aware of the violation or not. While I can certainly conceive of situations where drug testing your teen would be appropriate, I do have a problem with doing it covertly.

 

[Boo]

The only way I would drug test my kid was if she stopped telling me about what was happening at the places she goes to.

Drug Test:

Where did you go?
Who were you with?

What did you do last night?



Boo

 

[John Bentley]

I think you take your parenting job a lot more seriously than many other parents.

Unfortunately, I also think many parents will use such a drugtest to make up for poor parenting efforts.

There was a well respected physicist (obviously not that famous because I can't remember his name) who was asked what he considered to be his greatest contribution to the world. He replied: My son.

I think about that whenever I feel too tired to play with, pay attention to, or instruct my children.

Oh yeah, and the Harry Chapin song: Cat's in the Cradle.