Drag Shows!!

[Emily's Cat]

Yep and every single organisation that works with children has something like this happen from time to time. It happened at one of my son"s schools and the teacher in question had unsupervised access to children. We didn't demand the school be shut down.

If we were to cancel every organisation that had been infiltrated by a sex offender we would have cancelled every single organisation.
But at least this group ensured that a parent or guardian was present and no one had unsupervised access to children.

Keep in mind, that DQSH is not a required organization, it isn't a necessary part of childhood education, nor of caretaking.

Keep in mind that DQSH has as one of its goals overriding children's traditional notions of sex, sexuality, and presentation.

Then maybe think a bit about how much sex and sexuality is appropriate for children in the learning-to-read age range.

Nobody is talking about shutting down an organization because of the rare infiltration by a sex offender. Some of us are talking about disbanding an entirely unnecessary organization that seems custom-made to enable sex offenders to gain access to children. Or at a minimum, removing it from schools, preferably removing it from public libraries, and perhaps slapping much more obvious "not suitable for young children" disclaimers on it across the board.

 

[JoeMorgue]

How is drag "custom made to enable sex offenders to gain access to children?"

 

[catsmate]

Literally zero people who weren't already homophobic ever associated NAMBLA with gay rights.

Indeed, and yet certain people keep bringing it up.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Why do you see it as weird to cross dress?

It's the men that get hung up on a gendered uniform that I find weird. Why does gender have a dress code?

1) Yes, males tend to have a significantly lower level of tolerance for males who don't conform to rigid stereotypes of masculinity than females do. Females are more accepting of non-stereotype-conforming people of both sexes.

2) Cross-dressing males are an interesting category, that raise concerns for some valid reasons. It has little to do with the actual dress, and more to do with the correlation with some problematic mental health disorders.

2a) There is a high proportion of serial killers who were also cross-dressers. Considerably higher than the proportion of the general male public who cross dress. I have no idea about the reason, but the correlation is definitely there.

2b) Autogynephilia does exist, and remains a subclassification of transvestic paraphilias. While it is certainly not true of all cross-dressing males, there remains a reasonable likelihood that a cross-dressing male is making everyone around them the nonconsenting partners in their sexual fantasy fulfillment.

Like I said, it has much less to do with the actual clothing, and more to do with correlated behavioral problems.

 

[plague311]

How is drag "custom made to enable sex offenders to gain access to children?"

You have to squint a little bit but trust her, it's there. Didn't you see all those articles? There could be upwards of 8-10 people that have been busted over the course of DQSH being a thing!

If you're not even going to try and be bias then...forget it.

 

[plague311]

1) Yes, males tend to have a significantly lower level of tolerance for males who don't conform to rigid stereotypes of masculinity than females do. Females are more accepting of non-stereotype-conforming people of both sexes.

2) Cross-dressing males are an interesting category, that raise concerns for some valid reasons. It has little to do with the actual dress, and more to do with the correlation with some problematic mental health disorders.

2a) There is a high proportion of serial killers who were also cross-dressers. Considerably higher than the proportion of the general male public who cross dress. I have no idea about the reason, but the correlation is definitely there.

2b) Autogynephilia does exist, and remains a subclassification of transvestic paraphilias. While it is certainly not true of all cross-dressing males, there remains a reasonable likelihood that a cross-dressing male is making everyone around them the nonconsenting partners in their sexual fantasy fulfillment.

Like I said, it has much less to do with the actual clothing, and more to do with correlated behavioral problems.

Links to support any of this?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Dear me, are we creeping towards coining a new fallacy, "No true drag queen"?

It's a pity that we may be because, since and only since you asked, this very high profile drag queens alledged behaviour makes pretty grim reading.

Please note the submission this link is as a response to your request and is not indicative of any stance on Drag Queen Story Hour the poster may have, so reel yer ******* necks in.

‘Drag Race’ Star Sharon Needles Terrorized a 15-Year-Old Superfan. And They Weren’t Alone.​

https://www.thedailybeast.com/drag-...-a-15-year-old-superfan-and-they-werent-alone

Huh, this bit will be familiar to an incredibly large proportion of females:

Annecy also alleged that Alaska Thunderfuck, another Drag Race winner, exposed themself to Annecy on the cruise. “It was the first penis I ever saw and it was when I was 15, and there was no consent.”

Most females will end up with some adult male or other exposing their genitals to us when we are minors, all without our consent. It's so incredibly common that most females don't even register it as sexual harassment until we're very explicitly asked about it. Nearly all of us have been groped, rubbed up on, pinned in corners by overly pushy males, catcalled, objectified, and subjected to attempted or complete rapes enough times that some old guy flashing their junk at us when we didn't wish to see it kind of pales in comparison.

ETA: I'm NOT excusing this behavior as inconsequential for the young male in question. It IS consequential. I'm just pointing out that this poor behavior which is viewed as a grave transgression to a young male is a very common experience for young females.

 

[JoeMorgue]

//Half honest Devil Advocate, Half actual question I'm actually asking//

What is the value in having a specific demographic read to children though?

I mean "Specific Demographics come read to children" doesn't really seem to be a thing outside of this one context.

Are "Drag Queens" really that vital for a child's world view?

Let us be honest is the "We're doing it because the Republicans have a problem with it" in there absolutely nowhere no matter how hard we look?

 

[tyr_13]

How is drag "custom made to enable sex offenders to gain access to children?"

It isn't. In fact it's especially bad at it. The children are always or practically always with a parent or guardian, and a host of other parents or guardians, in plain view. Watching the performer. It's less amenable than in general public places where at least not everyone is focused on the person and children can't just be pulled away.

Things that would be 'custom made' in the sense that it's especially easy to pull it off in those situations would be things like church and associated groups. Camp. Sports. Or where most actually takes place, at home.

But don't expect moral panics to make a lot of rational sense, especially when they're using all the same disproven points as older moral panics. This is the gay panic almost exactly all over again, and essentially a proxy for that and the anti-trans activists.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Can we just assume the answer to literally everything Emily is ever asked is, was, and always will be "Here's an anecdote were a male was predatory?"

 

[Emily's Cat]

Bollocks, utter bollocks. It's a clear attempt to set the poster up for a barrage of thinly veiled insults.

With some posters, I would say this is true. But this isn't a behavior I have personally witnessed from Robin. Within the interactions that I have witnessed, Robin tends to mean exactly what they say.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I'm now actually mentally processing the term "Custom Made" in relation to being a child molester and that is a really weird headspace let me tell you

 

[tyr_13]

Links to support any of this?

It's overflow from the other thread where the obvious problems with these points are ignored and they just reinforce their panic.

//Half honest Devil Advocate, Half actual question I'm actually asking//

What is the value in having a specific demographic read to children though?

I mean "Specific Demographics come read to children" doesn't really seem to be a thing outside of this one context.

Are "Drag Queens" really that vital for a child's world view?

Let us be honest is the "We're doing it because the Republicans have a problem with it" in there absolutely nowhere no matter how hard we look?

We've been over this a lot with some other posters (check out some of the responses to Thermal), but it really doesn't matter.

If we're looking for reasons something should not be, it is more than sufficient that we find those lacking. There really isn't much reason to move onto why something should be if we can't support it being restricted.

It wouldn't surprise me if virtue signaling/trolling the deplorables/whatever factors into it, especially at the start. It doesn't seem like that's the reason it's stayed popular though. You might as well ask why Drag Race is vital to be on TV, or literally any other thing that is.

 

[Thermal]

//Half honest Devil Advocate, Half actual question I'm actually asking//

What is the value in having a specific demographic read to children though?

I mean "Specific Demographics come read to children" doesn't really seem to be a thing outside of this one context.

Are "Drag Queens" really that vital for a child's world view?

Let us be honest is the "We're doing it because the Republicans have a problem with it" in there absolutely nowhere no matter how hard we look?

This is what some of us have been asking for many pages now. You won't be getting a straight answer.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I await your evidence for this claim.

...

Oh look, a mix of lies and distortions from right-wing tabloid media and an anti-transgender propaganda site....

So just dismissed out of hand, because you've decide the sources don't meet your threshold, regardless of the police records for several of them being available?

Color me unsurprised. You have a pre-existing belief, and you will not allow that belief to be challenged. You will justify and rationalize any challenge to your belief, going so far as to cast aspersions on any evidence as being tantamount to heresy.

FWIW, I used to think drag was fun and entertaining. I had my own beliefs challenged by actual exposure, by actual events, by documented problems, and by witnessing the way in which many (not all) drag performers caricature females. I changed my mind based on evidence and consideration.

Are you willing to actually challenge your own beliefs?

 

[JoeMorgue]

We've been over this a lot with some other posters (check out some of the responses to Thermal), but it really doesn't matter.

I kinda think it does. "Why do this in the first place?" is valid, and that is regardless of one side having a bad or hateful reaction to it.

You might as well ask why Drag Race is vital to be on TV, or literally any other thing that is.

I would be if Drag Race was the only show on TV. Or the only show on Nickelodeon, which ever you think fits the metaphor better.

 

[tyr_13]

...




So just dismissed out of hand, because you've decide the sources don't meet your threshold, regardless of the police records for several of them being available?

It wasn't dismissed out of hand and each point was specifically refuted with how and why it doesn't support what you claimed. You can attempt to deal with those or you can continue to pretend it is others not following the evidence in some weird persecution complex.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Are you willing to actually challenge your own beliefs?

The only time anyone plays that card is when the belief changes from right to wrong.

When the belief changes from wrong to right, you don't have to depend entirely on arguing for your right to change it or the vague idea of some inherent value in changing our mind.

People who think 2+2=4 argue about the value of 2+2.

People who think 2+2=5 argue about their right to think what they want.

 

[Emily's Cat]

You're equating Pantomime with blackface now????

*Sigh* Somewhere back in this thread, I think, I already gave a pretty substantial description of what I view as drag, as opposed to pantomime dames, and as opposed to a male performing a female role within the context of a play or film. It was pretty comprehensive. Maybe go take a look?

Drag <> Pantomime <> Male performing a female role ala Mrs. Doubtfire.

Drag --> Blackface Minstrel Show
Pantomime --> ? I genuinely don't have an inbetween, perhaps something akin to David Carradine in Kung Fu?
Male performing female role --> Laurence Olivier in Othello

 

[tyr_13]

I kinda think it does. "Why do this in the first place?" is valid, and that is regardless of one side having a bad or hateful reaction to it.

No it is not. If we can't find good reason to restrict something before we even get to the benefits of it, why move on? This is trying to prove a negative territory. You can go back and read the replies to Thermal, where he gets straight answers over and over.

I would be if Drag Race was the only show on TV. Or the only show on Nickelodeon, which ever you think fits the metaphor better.

None of those metaphors match. Are you under the impression that drag story hours are the only ones taking place?