Drag Shows!!

[plague311]

Convince me that we should NOT start up a "Pole Dancer Story Hour" during which professional strippers and pole dancers show up in toned-down version of their stage costumes...

Have women stopped wearing skin tight leggings everywhere in public? What's ******* worse than those? They show every crack and crevice, all women of every vomit inducing size wears them, but they're totally cool. You wouldn't even bat an eye at a woman wearing yoga pants, camel toe and all, while reading to the kids. Would you? So where do we draw the line?

 

[plague311]

NAMBLA and various pedophile apologists infested the gay rights efforts in teh late 70s. They were finally REMOVED in the 90s.

Public acceptance of homosexuality turned around pretty quickly once the pedophiles were removed from the efforts.

Yeah, from there it only took 25 years to allow them to marry each other, and then another 5ish years until a legitimate fear that SCOTUS will overturn that right and leave it up to the states, of which GOP states have openly said they'll take that right away.

I don't think this made the point that you were thinking it made.

 

[Darat]

I kinda think it does. "Why do this in the first place?" is valid, and that is regardless of one side having a bad or hateful reaction to it.







I would be if Drag Race was the only show on TV. Or the only show on Nickelodeon, which ever you think fits the metaphor better.

Way back I provided a YouTube video of a librarian dressed up for Halloween. Dressing up to entertain children and reading to them is something that libraries do, I found examples of witches, Harry Potter theme, Peppa Pig and a myriad of other dressing up events.A drag character is not an exception, merely one of many.

 

[JoeMorgue]

And then, there is straight cis Kathleen Turner who played Chandler’s gay drag queen father on Friends for a couple of seasons.

//Slight hijack//

The original plan for Peg's mother on Married With Children was to have her played by Divine, and her father to be played by Harris Glenn Milstead out of character.

 

[Emily's Cat]

No I dismissed them because they're overblown, irrelevant and fictional.
What one would expect from the sources you copies them from.


Pot---Kettle.

And just what are my "beliefs"?


Right.....


I have. Though I tend to react to facts and evidence.

As you're perfectly well aware, as is everyone else reading, your collection of anecdotes and right-wing scare stories have been debunked.
Here's a summary.
1. Outright lie.
2. Outright lie.
3. Outright lie.
4. Irrelevant and unconnected to DQSH.
5. Irrelevant.
6. Deliberately overblown.
So none of your "links" have any relevance to the discussion.

1) Actually did happen. Flow Job DID place pictures of kids on their instagram site - a site which was otherwise filled with sexualized content. They removed those pictures AFTER parents complained that they did not want their children's pictures on that page, and that they had not consented to their kids pictures being posted in the first place. Not a lie in any way.

2) At least one of the people stuffing cash down that bra appears to be a young-ish teen. But sure, let's quibble that only the all-the-way adults stuffed cash down the bra of a performer in a skimpy costume in a public place where lots of kids were present. Makes all the difference.

3) What on earth? Do you not have eyeballs? Do you not see the sign? Or is it that you don't think those are "skimpy" outfits? Or that the kids somehow don't qualify as "kids"? The sign is visible in multiple photos, and very clearly says "it's not gonna lick itself". And there are actual ******* photos of children handing scantily clad performers money. So what the **** do you think is an "outright lie" there?

4) Again, WTF? The CEO of "Cream City Foundation" that got "Cream City Foundation" the CONTRACT for DQSH is "unconnected" to DQSH? The fact that this CEO who was instrumental in getting a contract for adult-themed entertainment into venues specifically targeting children is "irrelevant"?

5) A drag performer who works with a YOUTH foundation being found to have a ton of child porn is "irrelevant"?

6) I assume that the "deliberately overblown" element is that someone claimed it had been marketed as a "family friendly" brunch? You clearly don't see anything at all wrong with sexually explicit performances being performed in front of children while at brunch at a public place?

Good grief, the stench of homophobic bigotry around here.

Lol, seriously? You seem to think that all of this is just a-okay, no big deal. Child porn is just fine, sexually explicity performances in front of kids is great.

And your only real riposte is to call me a homophobe? That's beyond absurd, it's nothing more than a personal insult based on your fantasy.

At this point, I've got to ask... What exactly would you personally consider to be age-inappropriate for kids?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Have women stopped wearing skin tight leggings everywhere in public? What's ******* worse than those? They show every crack and crevice, all women of every vomit inducing size wears them, but they're totally cool. You wouldn't even bat an eye at a woman wearing yoga pants, camel toe and all, while reading to the kids. Would you? So where do we draw the line?

I.. wow...

Did you just equate overweight females in generally acceptable modes of dress which you find distasteful to the intentionally sexually alluring outfits of strippers?

Fatty-fat-fats in leggings are gross to you, you find them "vomit inducing"... so they're the same as strippers?

I mean, WTAF dude? I don't know where to start with this. Do I start with the fat shaming in general, or do I start with the rather obvious fat shaming of females? Do we unpack the assumption that females should only wear clothing that males find them alluring in, because the value of females resides in how much males want to **** them? And because of that, if a female is overweight, or if males find them unattractive, they should be ashamed of themselves and hide away so as not to interfere with the titillation of males?

Do you turn that same censorious *gaze* on males who are obese, walking around with their 'apron' showing because their shirts aren't long enough to cover it? Or those un-manscaped males at the beach in their speedos? Do you have the same degree of "vomit-induced" gross-out about males?

Or is this reaction something specific to females who don't make your gaze happy? How often do you tell random females to "smile"?

 

[Emily's Cat]

Yeah, from there it only took 25 years to allow them to marry each other, and then another 5ish years until a legitimate fear that SCOTUS will overturn that right and leave it up to the states, of which GOP states have openly said they'll take that right away.

I don't think this made the point that you were thinking it made.

I'm not responsible for the idiocy of the religious whackos. They've already removed MY RIGHT to bodily autonomy is 13 states, with severe restrictions in place in several other states... AND they effectively managed to make it ILLEGAL for public funds to be used for female contraceptives.

My point is that the degree of public support changed dramatically once the pedos were removed from the gay rights efforts. The religious loons remained (and continue to remain) religious loons. At this particular point in time, I don't think I'd cry much if religion were outlawed, and all of those idiots were disbanded.

 

[Stacyhs]

Oh, okay then. Let's have it your way.

No, let's have it according to what I actually asked about and not the irrelevant ones you dragged out (pardon the pun).

No children were explicity and directly harmed while explicitly attending a DQSH event.

Now, that is answering my question. But I note that you attempt to imply some may have been harmed indirectly. Otherwise, why add "explicitly and directly" harmed? I bet you can't find any examples of children being indirectly harmed either.

We exclude any and all drag events that are aimed at or marketed to include children, if they are not explicitly named as DQSH or DQST events. We also exclude the pedophilic behaviors of any drag performers if those pedophilic behaviors occurred outside of specifically time-limited DQSH/DQST events. We will also exclude any drag events aimed at children that are positioned as "family friendly" provided that either 1) they include disclaimers that "family friendly" doesn't actually mean "family friendly" and may not be suitable for all ages or 2) whoever complained about the inappropriate content or behavior can be cast as ***Right Wing*** by someone on the internet, and thus summarily dismissed.

This is when you off the rails.

We'll just gloss right over the repeated overlap between DQSH and child porn and CSA. That's all just coincidence. We'll close our eyes and just pretend that efforts to introduce content that 'bends traditional norms of sexuality' to very young children, from a collection of individuals with a high proportion of 'MAP' behaviors is all just a figment of our imagination.

Oh, give me a break. You act like every drag queen, or even a majority, is a pedophile. Dressing up as women is not bending the traditional norms of sexuality; it's bending the traditional norms of strict male and female dressing and behavior so they can be open minded to differences. The problem is that you can't see that. You know, there was a time when women couldn't wear trousers by law. It wasn't even socially acceptable for women to wear "men's" clothes until the mid-twentieth century and then only informally.

If you look really really hard, and squint a bit, you might be able to convince yourself that there really are five lights.

And if you look really, really hard and squint a bit, you might be able to convince yourself that drag queens are hiding behind every bush, corner, and library aisle just waiting to jump out and abuse children. Oh, wait...maybe you don't have to squint at all.

 

[catsmate]

“I’m not homophobic, but…” never ends not-homophobic.

I remember when it was "I'm not one of those racialists but....." followed by the latest National Front propaganda.

 

[catsmate]

And then, there is straight cis Kathleen Turner who played Chandler’s gay drag queen father on Friends for a couple of seasons.

Wasn't the character trans?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Wasn't the character trans?

That was back in the 90s when the line (in pop culture) between crossdresser/trans wasn't as clear.

Chandler's father was gay/trans/crossdressing/drag queen depending on what the joke needed.

 

[Stacyhs]

Huh, this bit will be familiar to an incredibly large proportion of females:

Quote:
Annecy also alleged that Alaska Thunderfuck, another Drag Race winner, exposed themself to Annecy on the cruise. “It was the first penis I ever saw and it was when I was 15, and there was no consent.”

Most females will end up with some adult male or other exposing their genitals to us when we are minors, all without our consent. It's so incredibly common that most females don't even register it as sexual harassment until we're very explicitly asked about it. Nearly all of us have been groped, rubbed up on, pinned in corners by overly pushy males, catcalled, objectified, and subjected to attempted or complete rapes enough times that some old guy flashing their junk at us when we didn't wish to see it kind of pales in comparison.

ETA: I'm NOT excusing this behavior as inconsequential for the young male in question. It IS consequential. I'm just pointing out that this poor behavior which is viewed as a grave transgression to a young male is a very common experience for young females.

My first experience with a 'flasher' was when I was 12 years old and out riding horses with my friends. He wasn't in drag.

I've been 'flashed' on a train in Belgium.

I've been 'flashed' on the Acropolis. Neither was in drag.

I had a married, former boss offer me money while I was working to show him my breasts. He was dressed in a suit.

I had a man push his way into my car and attempt to put something over my face but I fought back, he panicked and fled. He wasn't in drag either.

Obviously, what allegedly happened to Annecy happens to women and girls all the time so why should it be any more surprising coming from some drag queens or any more reprehensible?

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
And then, there is straight cis Kathleen Turner who played Chandler’s gay drag queen father on Friends for a couple of seasons.

Wasn't the character trans?

I don't think the Amazon, 5 seasons Transparent with Jeffrey Tambor as a transgender woman coming out in her 60's has been mentioned yet.

 

[tyr_13]

Convince me that we should NOT start up a "Pole Dancer Story Hour" during which professional strippers and pole dancers show up in toned-down version of their stage costumes, perform toned-down versions of their stage shows, and also read stories to kids lauding and normalizing "sex work".

Tell me why that wouldn't be a good idea.

...so you object to dancing too? Damn, the Footloose thing was supposed to be a hyperbolic joke, but here you are making it unironically, if unintentionally. Because you do realize that what you describe is just dancers, right? You do get that? If you remove the sexual aspects of stripping and pole dancing, it's just dancing.

No, I wouldn't have a problem with Cirque De Soleil story hour. I'll go further and say that I'd have no problem with child pole dancing classes. Why? They exist already. Pole dancing also isn't inherently sexual! I know, I've done it! It is A, very fun, and B, quite the abdominal work out.

It's a good idea for all the same reasons that reading hours for children are good ideas. Are you against them in general?

Because the reasons of "Drag is predominantly adult entertainment in the US, encompassing adult and sexual themes, often involving sexualized costume, and oh, by the way, is also a parody of females in general" doesn't seem to be something you consider worth thinking about.

Sure it is, like movies, and video games, and a lot of other things.

You're arguing that because I don't agree with your absurd hate I haven't thought about these issues. Naw, I've just done better at it than you have. Think that's arrogant? It's less arrogant than what you just argued.

 

[Emily's Cat]

My first experience with a 'flasher' was when I was 12 years old and out riding horses with my friends. He wasn't in drag.

I've been 'flashed' on a train in Belgium.

I've been 'flashed' on the Acropolis. Neither was in drag.

I had a married, former boss offer me money while I was working to show him my breasts. He was dressed in a suit.

I had a man push his way into my car and attempt to put something over my face but I fought back, he panicked and fled. He wasn't in drag either.

Obviously, what allegedly happened to Annecy happens to women and girls all the time so why should it be any more surprising coming from some drag queens or any more reprehensible?

It's not any more reprehensible. What IS more reprehensible is that many people seem to be taking the drag queen's side, with little to no care for the person who they harmed. What IS reprehensible, is that because of the political efforts involved, a great many people feel they must take the drag queens side.

 

[Emily's Cat]

...so you object to dancing too? Damn, the Footloose thing was supposed to be a hyperbolic joke, but here you are making it unironically, if unintentionally. Because you do realize that what you describe is just dancers, right? You do get that? If you remove the sexual aspects of stripping and pole dancing, it's just dancing.

No, I wouldn't have a problem with Cirque De Soleil story hour. I'll go further and say that I'd have no problem with child pole dancing classes. Why? They exist already. Pole dancing also isn't inherently sexual! I know, I've done it! It is A, very fun, and B, quite the abdominal work out.

It's a good idea for all the same reasons that reading hours for children are good ideas. Are you against them in general?

I'll mark you down as being a supporter of "Stripper Story Time" for young kids then. At least you're honest, I guess.

 

[Stacyhs]

It's moral panic built on moral panics. I can't wait to see how a false history of the D&D panic makes its way in.

LOL! I remember the D&D panic. I thought it was stupid then and I still do. Bunch of uptight religious nuts afraid the Devil was using D&D to get to their innocent children. Sound familiar?

 

[tyr_13]

I'll mark you down as being a supporter of "Stripper Story Time" for young kids then. At least you're honest, I guess.

If it isn't sexual, it isn't 'stripping'; it's just dancing.

 

[tyr_13]

LOL! I remember the D&D panic. I thought it was stupid then and I still do. Bunch of uptight religious nuts afraid the Devil was using D&D to get to their innocent children. Sound familiar?

But why do kids have to roleplay heroes fighting dragons huh? Seems a little weird to me. Like the adults have some agenda to push or something. Why dungeons? Are they pushing math, which is usually used by adults for capitalism, onto innocent kids? /s

 

[Thermal]

It's funny that you claim to never have gotten a straight answer then paraphrase a straight answer. 'It literally doesn't matter' is also a straight answer, even if you don't like the answer.

Vacuousness and shoulder shrugging are not intelligent answers to "why TF are you doing this?"

Let's hear your evidence why it matters? All you've had is 'I just have a feeling'.

You seem to have misunderstood the question posed. I'm asking you to show support for your claim. Like, is there some peer reviewed research that shows that a hired man in a dress reading a story in a library has a demonstrable positive effect? Or is it more "you just have a feeling?" Cuz that would be pretty funny.

Each time you just ignore all the reasoning presented to reset to your claim having weight. It doesn't. Try to give it some.

"Reasoning" has yet to be presented. Repeating empty, generic platitudes and shrugging shoulders is poodle-level critical thinking.

Also the main group cited changed its name from Drag Queen Story Hour to Drag Story Hour. Presumably, there was an issue with "queens", or they thought that any old man in a dress would do? This isn't an issue of Drag/Queen inclusivity or acceptance. It's just a weird round peg to be beating into a square hole. Especially because children that young would not likely have any idea what is going on. So...what? It's for the adults to congratulate themselves over?