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Dowsing by a Skeptic

Kid Eager said:
I think SaskMick is deep in that Egyptian river.

I've been through this dowsing thing may times with prospectors who claim they can dowse.

Much as I'd like it to work, so that I can get rich quick, somehow the dowsing doesn't achieve results distinguishable from having local knowledge or using lucky underpants.

The middle of an old riverbed probably isn't the best place to have a discussion about the ideomotor effect and confirmation bias, but I do try.

Meanwhile, my lucky underpants are leading me to riches...
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Of course, if it worked we'd have to replicate the results with someone else which raises the question "How many people would you let into your underpants"? :)
 
Sockor said:
Einstein did however write:
"This newspaper drivel about me is pathetic. This kind of exaggeration meets a certain need among the public."
(letter to H. Zangger, 15. dec 1919)
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Good find!
 
Of course, the 'bucket test' that was conducted is the exact opposite of what is needed to prove the viability of his Dowsing claim.

In his test, the buckets were the actual object he was trying to "Dowse", he could visually see them.

The buckets should be utilized to hide a dowsing object from view, not be the object in full view.

Let alone the fact that he painted the inside of the challenge bucket himself.....

This proves evidence for being able to spot 1 bucket amongst 5 that you had access to, and made unique yourself, not dowsing. I would expect a 100% success rate continually using this method.

You have proven that 1 can spot variances in objects when they know the said variances....good job.
 
It is very interesting that SiskMick claimed perfect success in all sorts of "tests" of dowsing: the videos, the coin in his wife's hands, the bucket test, and then proposed that tests were in fact impossible (at one point claiming that they were so important that they would throw off his mindset, and then claiming the opposite that they were too trivial and dowsing only works for important things). Apparently a proper test cannot possibly work better than chance, according to SiskMick, even if the test is only for himself.

The difference is clear: tests only "work" if they are not proper tests, and stop working if they are. Dowsing has a long history of doing just that.

Okay, forget the tests if they are too trivial. Suggestions for dowsing for several really important people and things have already been posted here; this can save lives. Surely someone in the dowsing community will be willing to help? If it can be done at all...
 
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Back in my college days we did a yest of dowsing. We had some volunteers, a dowsing rod, six cups, a ball, and a die. If thee dowser knew where the ball was the rod pointed right at the cup with a ball under it every time. If the dowser did not know which cup had the ball they were right about one out of six times. Every time they got it right they were sure that they were learning and with more practice they would be right 100% of the time. They did not appear to get any better with practice, however.

Dowsing is a psychological effect and it has no ability to produce information that the dowser does not already have in their heads. It certainly feels like it is working to the person using the dowsing rods, however.

Finally, water is easy to find. Dig until you hit the water table.
 
dlorde said:
Exactly; and if you get electrocuted, you were dowsing for the wrong thing, probably because a nearby skeptic messed up your powers... ;)
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Getting electrocuted is known as extreme dowsing.
 
SaskMick said:
I have proven it to beyond my satisfaction. What you think or don't think is meaningless.
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What you think is meaningless. You are not a skeptic, and you are unwilling or unable to understand double blind testing, the scientific method, the ideomotor effect, and the difference between bias and evidence, and between truth and personal preference.

We cannot help you. Your mind is made up. Truth and logic are not a factor in your beliefs, and therefore no logical argument or facts will sway you.

Your time is wasted here.

#EDIT: Then again, we all fully well know that, given we found your posts elsewhere getting a few juvenile yuks at messing with the skeptics on these boards, and asking for help to keep doing it.
 
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What I found surprising, aside from how little posting occurs, while rooting around at the BSoD forum is that this British brand of dowserism does not appear generally to encompass religious faith, as it seems to do in the States.

I do recall one gentleman though in one of Dawkins' videos on dowser testing crediting god with the source of his secret knowledge, so I'm not sure if atheism is a common thread in British dowsing circles or not.

I am looking forward this evening to SaskMick's return from his timeout for calling his playmates mean names, though I confess I had to dowse a bit for "plonker", and I sincerely hope his activity here is more enjoyable than his experience at BSoD has been of late.

I did learn a new word, though, from one of his threads at that forum: metal dectectorists. [sic] Yes, who would have ever thought that the lowly metal detector could ever be considered a fool's device used only by depraved cultists? The Pat Robertson of dowsing does.

Priceless::D
Any dowsers here use a metal detector ? (or "How I spent my vacation for misbehaving at a skeptic site")



 
Olowkow said:
What I found surprising, aside from how little posting occurs, while rooting around at the BSoD forum is that this British brand of dowserism does not appear generally to encompass religious faith, as it seems to do in the States.

I do recall one gentleman though in one of Dawkins' videos on dowser testing crediting god with the source of his secret knowledge, so I'm not sure if atheism is a common thread in British dowsing circles or not.

I am looking forward this evening to SaskMick's return from his timeout for calling his playmates mean names, though I confess I had to dowse a bit for "plonker", and I sincerely hope his activity here is more enjoyable than his experience at BSoD has been of late.

I did learn a new word, though, from one of his threads at that forum: metal dectectorists. [sic] Yes, who would have ever thought that the lowly metal detector could ever be considered a fool's device used only by depraved cultists? The Pat Robertson of dowsing does.

Priceless::D
Any dowsers here use a metal detector ? (or "How I spent my vacation for misbehaving at a skeptic site")
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Whats odd is sassy said "It isn't the rods" OK, Then why does he need them at all then?

I can use a spoon to douse Cheerios from my bowl of cereal; 100% success rate when the cereal in question is Cheerios.
 
Nay_Sayer said:
Whats odd is sassy said "It isn't the rods" OK, Then why does he need them at all then?

I can use a spoon to douse Cheerios from my bowl of cereal; 100% success rate when the cereal in question is Cheerios.
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I think some dowsers believe that the rods themselves are crucial to the detection of a particular item, such as water or gold. They seem to believe that the material in the rod is attracted selectively to various things. I vaguely remember seeing adverts for various types of rods, copper, brass, steel, aluminum and even twisted copper wire rods which apparently were material specific for dowsers' searches.

Other dowsers appear to believe that the rods are just a tool, and it is the mind that somehow causes rod movement to indicate the location of the desired item. In this group, some accept the ideomotor effect as the mechanism for causing the movement, while others believe the mind magically moves the rods. The information which informs the mind to cause the movement directly or indirectly is believed alternately to be derived from god or yet unknown forces/senses possessed by humans. Some dowsers bristle at the idea that the information can be simply derived by the dowser's known senses, which is in fact the case, while others give an impression of possibly allowing for this likelihood but cannot tell you which sense would be responsible.

Most seem to be content with the broad notion of "information dowsing".

Though the sample set is small, this is my best understanding of the classes of dowsers. It doesn't seem to matter what you believe when among dowsers, just as long as you don't start asking to do any double blind trials, or question the validity of any claims of discovery. They really don't like skeptics. I can't decide whether dowsers are as a group afraid to know the truth, just because dowsing is so much fun, or whether they honestly think skeptics are at once evil, dangerous, damaging to their craft, and maliciously disbelieving for nefarious purposes...or perhaps some combination of these.

What is very likely going on is that dowsers are generally just not interested in nor appreciative of scientific explanations of natural phenomena. It's like learning boring facts for them, and they already know all they need to know, which to them feels like a scientific method of their own. Having special arcane knowledge and a desire to share it with others can be the norm in an academic setting, but it is also often one symptom of certain mental issues and of aging in general.

I think some people are members at BSoD just because they enjoy other people who don't need evidence for their beliefs and don't even have a real interest in dowsing. In some ways, it is reminiscent of the past lives forum we encountered years ago. There is a wide variety of woo over there at BSoD, including reincarnation.
 
Nay_Sayer said:
Whats odd is sassy said "It isn't the rods" OK, Then why does he need them at all then?
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Our once-upon-a-time member "edge" was a dowser for various things, notably gold. He would attach something different to the ends of his rods depending on what he was dowsing for.
 
IIRC, Edge did a test? Blamed his failure on interference from gilded book titles on the shelves? Before my time here.
 
Olowkow said:
Priceless::D
Any dowsers here use a metal detector ? (or "How I spent my vacation for misbehaving at a skeptic site")
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Love that. SaskMick, who isn't interested in the million because he doesn't need it wants to get a metal detector to confirm his infallible magick stix because some meteors can be worth quite a lot. :eye-poppi

"Did you ask the sticks how deep?"
"Well, yeah and they said between 3 and 3 1/2 feet."
Someone needs to crossbreed Dowing Rods and Clever Hans. Then the rods could tap 103 times, in cm since Canada's gone metric of course, so that Mick could pinpoint those meteorites, 'cuz digging 15 cm extra is just so much work!
 
Foolmewunz said:
Love that. SaskMick, who isn't interested in the million because he doesn't need it wants to get a metal detector to confirm his infallible magick stix because some meteors can be worth quite a lot. :eye-poppi
[ . . . ]
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