Don't attack us please

[Policenaut]

Are they also planning to do polls to test its effectiveness? That would be interesting. I am inclined to believe that it will be seen as ineffective propaganda but who knows.

 

[peptoabysmal]

If they follow the regulations they are quite welcome to advertise whatever they want on British TV if they pay for it.

It's the government. Aren't YOU paying for it in the end?

The British government will air ads on Pakistani television urging terrorists to not attack Britain.

 

[Texas]

Are they also planning to do polls to test its effectiveness? That would be interesting. I am inclined to believe that it will be seen as ineffective propaganda but who knows.

I guess they could put up signs with "_____workdays without a suicide attack"

 

[Lonewulf]

I don't get it either. If what you believe is true then why in the hell publish this article directed at Pakistan? If it will not change anyone's mind then why bother?

I don't have any stance either way. I'm just wondering how one can justify the claim that it will "benefit" the terrorists in Pakistan. I can think that it might have a positive effect, or no effect whatsoever. But I'm not sure how much of a negative effect it can have. I never said that the message would necessarily be ineffectual across the board.

So how do we define "benefit" here? Even if we accept that it draws terrorist attacks against the UK, "benefit" would be a bad word to use, a better one would be more like "provoke".

 

[The Don]

It's the government. Aren't YOU paying for it in the end?

Darat was responding to the question "how would you feel if Pakistan started running similar commercials in the UK".

If this was the case then the Pakistani government would be paying for the commercials run in the UK.

 

[The Painter]

There are a LOT of Moslems in pre 1967 Israel, that does not keep Hamas from lobbing rockets into Israel....

So you don't think a "Please don't attack us" ad would work for Israel??

 

[gumboot]

Er, how would it "benefit" them?

It has significant propaganda value for the Islamists. They can simultaneously play the "The coward infidels are so weakened they beg us to leave them alone" and the "The imperialists infidels seek to fool you with propaganda, and the Pakistani government allows them for it too is run by infidels".

Combine that with "the government is letting the American and British infidel operate in our country, violating our sovereignty" and you have some good recruiting material.

 

[Darat]

The approach lacks any obvious pragmatic basis. The Islamic extremists (who I presume are the primary targets) will spin it in one or two of two ways:

...snip...

From the article I would say that is not who the campaign is aimed at, it is aimed at providing a counter-balance to the propaganda from the Islamic extremists.

 

[Darat]

Folks seem to be getting rather carried away with the headline the journalist has used, there is no indication from the article that the adverts will be saying anything like "please don't attack us".

 

[shuize]

It has significant propaganda value for the Islamists. They can simultaneously play the "The coward infidels are so weakened they beg us to leave them alone" and the "The imperialists infidels seek to fool you with propaganda, and the Pakistani government allows them for it too is run by infidels".

Combine that with "the government is letting the American and British infidel operate in our country, violating our sovereignty" and you have some good recruiting material.

Not to mention the old standby: "Islam is the religion of peace. How dare they insult it by claiming Muslims are terrorists. For this they must die."

 

[WildCat]

Folks seem to be getting rather carried away with the headline the journalist has used, there is no indication from the article that the adverts will be saying anything like "please don't attack us".

People in Pakistan can see that headline also.

 

[Darat]

And?

 

[Ziggurat]

I'm still not getting it; I may just be ignorant, I don't know. I don't get how it would make them any more likely to attack anyone than they already were

"Oh please Brer Fox, whatever you do, please don't throw me into the briar patch."

 

[Jaxe]

Darat was responding to the question "how would you feel if Pakistan started running similar commercials in the UK".

If this was the case then the Pakistani government would be paying for the commercials run in the UK.

That's not the correct quote in the first place.
"Imagine if you will Pakistani propaganda on primetime TV in your contry."

The point would be how would you react if you were a potential terrorist whom the Pakistani government is trying to pursuade not to attack Pakistan. The word Imagine carries a lot here, i know, one can imagine a lot of things. And I know it's has a strawman built into it, but if it helps you to understand the concept, and then go back to the original statement. Which is what effect will these adds have?

Personally I doubt they can do more good than harm, hopefully it will be good, obviously, I'd give a sigh of relief (and not be surprised) if there was no effect at all, but I'm afraid that it might actually be more provocative than helpful.

 

[Jaxe]

Folks seem to be getting rather carried away with the headline the journalist has used, there is no indication from the article that the adverts will be saying anything like "please don't attack us".

Yea, people should know better than to just read the headlines by now

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

From the article I would say that is not who the campaign is aimed at, it is aimed at providing a counter-balance to the propaganda from the Islamic extremists.

Sorry, I did skip a few steps. I was projecting towards (what I thought was) the logical end target of the campaign.

From the article:

The campaign, the paper said, will be targeted at ‘15-25-year-old males who are less than well-educated and worldly wise, but potentially susceptible to extremist doctrines’.

If the point of the campaign is to counterbalance oppositional propaganda (presumably to keep the Muslims who are "on the fence" from becoming extremists) then my point stands. People seriously entertaining the perspectives that 1) the Western world is the great Satan and/or 2) Muslims living comfortably in the Western world are not worthy of being considered "true" Muslims will not, in my estimation, be swayed into taking less extreme perspectives by statements to the contrary.

You have stated that you think the intentions of the campaign are worthy; I agree. I have stated that I don’t see how the campaign will effectively result in fewer/no attacks on the UK/extremism/terrorists due to the fact that the extremists will play this campaign like a fiddle to those they recruit and with whom they conspire.

If you think this doesn’t play into the extremists’ sales pitches and motivational doctrines, or that the campaign will in any way make the UK more safe from terrorism, why so?

 

[Lonewulf]

"Oh please Brer Fox, whatever you do, please don't throw me into the briar patch."

Hot damn! Britain can be compared to Br'er Rabbit? Wow. I guess it's not much of a "benefit" for terrorists at all, then!

 

[Ziggurat]

Hot damn! Britain can be compared to Br'er Rabbit?

The point wasn't to compare Britain to Br'er Rabbit (you may do so if you wish, but I wasn't), but merely to point out that asking for something can sometimes influence people to do the opposite. Sometimes that effect is intentional, as in the case of Br'er Rabbit. Sometimes it is not. I do not intend to suggest it is intentional in this case (meaning that the people who put out the adds wanted more attacks), nor do I know that it will create such an effect, only that it is possible to.

 

[GreyICE]

Do we have any reports from a website that DOESN'T list astrology as one of its major subject categories? Excuse me if I find such sources a bit, well... poor.

 

[Darat]

Sorry, I did skip a few steps. I was projecting towards (what I thought was) the logical end target of the campaign.

From the article:



If the point of the campaign is to counterbalance oppositional propaganda (presumably to keep the Muslims who are "on the fence" from becoming extremists) then my point stands. People seriously entertaining the perspectives that 1) the Western world is the great Satan and/or 2) Muslims living comfortably in the Western world are not worthy of being considered "true" Muslims will not, in my estimation, be swayed into taking less extreme perspectives by statements to the contrary.

You have stated that you think the intentions of the campaign are worthy; I agree. I have stated that I don’t see how the campaign will effectively result in fewer/no attacks on the UK/extremism/terrorists due to the fact that the extremists will play this campaign like a fiddle to those they recruit and with whom they conspire.

If you think this doesn’t play into the extremists’ sales pitches and motivational doctrines, or that the campaign will in any way make the UK more safe from terrorism, why so?

I think there are three points to be addressed to answer your post fully.

The first is whether you think propaganda/marketing works. My opinion is that it can work.

The second is whether this particular campaign can achieve its aims. And just to ensure we are discussing the campaign itself and not a journalist's spin on the campaign and their headline, these are its aims:

to ensure Pakistanis realise the west is not "anti-Islamic", that British society is not "anti-Islam", to demonstrate the extent to which Muslims are integrated into British society and to stimulate and facilitate "constructive debate" on the compatibility of liberal and Muslim values.​

I can't think of anything in principle (and I have to say in principle because I don't know exact details of the campaign) that means it would not be possible to create a campaign that could get message across to some Pakistanis.

The third point about is "will in any way make the UK more safe from terrorism". My opinion is that if the campaign has some success then the answer is yes, because I think a better understanding of the reality of the UK would result in fewer people falling for the propaganda the extremists use to persuade people that the UK should be a target for their terrorist activities.