Moderated Donald Sterling, Owner of the Clippers, is Racist

[ravdin]

[Harry Reid] was wowed by Obama's oratorical gifts and believed that the country was ready to embrace a black presidential candidate, especially one such as Obama – a 'light-skinned' African American 'with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one,' as he later put it privately.

I will never submit to fight beneath that banner with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds.

You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent. I’m not joking!

I mean you’ve got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and nice-looking guy.

Old white men get a pass for racism, as long as they are prominent Democrats.

 

[sunmaster14]

Everyone is racist.

I too am disgusted by the systemic racism in the Democratic Party.

QFT

Apple's other comments were sent to AAH

These in addition to yours and ABC's (who continues to prove my point)

David, posting quotes, without context or explanation, is not the same thing as pointing out logical fallacies. There was a discussion in which ABC10 was posting obnoxious stuff to bait some of the people here, and several of them responded by making tendentious statements or attacking Republicans or conservatives in general (actually some of this happened in subtler form even prior to ABC10's posts). To varying degrees, the posters you quoted responded in kind.

As to the quotes you gave, I don't think any were irrelevant or fallacious in context. They wouldn't ordinarily be relevant in a thread such as this, but the thread was going off the rails a bit, and they were apt at the time.

For example, I think Caper was making a fair point that racism is deeply embedded within human nature. We can only make it socially unacceptable to express it publicly (or illegal in some cases), but it is impossible to eliminate it. As he indicated several posts later, he in no way meant this as a justification for Sterling's blatant racism, nor did he mean for it to be an absolute statement. So there was no false equivalence, nor was it fallacious in any other regard. That post and Applecorp's posts (including those sent to AAH) I saw as mostly in response to an implication that Sterling's racist rant was proof that we don't live in a post-racial society and that therefore those who want to move beyond race are disingenuous or wrong.

I don't remember the context of ravdin's quote precisely, but there sure was a lot of conservative-bashing going on. I think it was fair to point out that there is actually quite a bit of racism within the Democratic Party, and arguably the whole framework of affirmative action race-sensitive policies which they advocate is racist. The way conservative blacks are vilified is particularly appalling to me.

As for my writings, you still haven't explained how they were logically flawed. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it is fallacious.

 

[A'isha]

DavidJames has confirmed that his claim extends to non-ABC10 "conservative" posters here. If he or you gives me an example, I will concede that my challenge has been met, although that would still come far short of justifying his rather broad claim.

Here's one that just happened:

Old white men get a pass for racism, as long as they are prominent Democrats.

 

[sunmaster14]

Here's one that just happened:

What is the logical fallacy? I'll admit that the statement is too general to be true, but a certain allowance should be made for rhetorical flourish.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

I'd like to recommend Michael McCann's piece,


What's next for NBA in Donald Sterling case from a legal standpoint?

Especially his outlining of the issues the NBA is going to face authenticating the recording.

Confirming the authenticity of the recording could prove difficult. The original recording is presumably in the possession of TMZ. The NBA, as a private business, has no subpoena power to force TMZ or any other entity to turn it over. TMZ may be reluctant to share the original recording, especially if it was obtained on the condition that it would not be shared. TMZ may also be reluctant to share the recording because the recording itself could be unlawful.

Under California penal law, it is a crime to intentionally record a confidential conversation without the consent of the person or persons being recorded. This type of eavesdropping also empowers victims of the unlawful recording to sue for money damages. TMZ's own exposure to liability is far less than the person or persons who made the recording. TMZ is a media company with broad First Amendment rights, especially on matters that are newsworthy. Still, media companies can be sued for publication of private facts, and Sterling, an attorney by trade, could consider legal action.

She claims that as his archivist, she always is recording him and he knew it and often asked her to play back the recordings she'd made. I don't think that law would apply. However, I'm not a lawyer, I've just watched every episode of Law & Order.

http://www.tmz.com/2014/04/27/donald-sterling-racist-audio-v-stiviano-recorded-clippers/

 

[varwoche]

Holy cow, it's as if a bug in the forum software is causing random posts to bleed over from unrelated threads.

It's not about me. It's not my claims, but the ever ongoing 24/7 news cycle on the media which is all over the airwaves and internet ... Evidence of what?????

Huh? You made claims about how the media is treating the story which you failed to backup. Please provide evidence of...

Lot's of laughs, fun and games from the commentators on the Lib Channels of MSNBC and CNN trying to slide pass the remarks of this white racist Democrat.

Who is Nova and what did he/she debunk?

Nova Land is the poster who debunked the misleading things you posted up thread. I strongly suggest you review the proceedings. Are you even reading the thread?

<< my exceedingly rare double-confused indicator

It's Don Sterling. I think poor 81 year old Don got caught rambling in a private conversation with his mistress. Is he racist? I don't know and don't care if he is anyway.

I'm tempted to whip out the triple-confused indicator.

I'd point out that evidence has been posted of Sterling's racism in the past, before "poor Don" was 81 years old. However it doesn't appear that you're even bothering to read the thread.

 

[A'isha]

What is the logical fallacy? I'll admit that the statement is too general to be true, but a certain allowance should be made for rhetorical flourish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

 

[ABC10]

She claims that as his archivist, she always is recording him and he knew it and often asked her to play back the recordings she'd made. I don't think that law would apply. However, I'm not a lawyer, I've just watched every episode of Law & Order.

http://www.tmz.com/2014/04/27/donald-sterling-racist-audio-v-stiviano-recorded-clippers/

Me too Lisa. Everything I know about the Law comes from Law & Order. I think we got a great education and continue to do so. I am not Jack but would love to be Angie Harmon (ain't she great and so talented). Thanks for the article.

 

[Mumbles]

Old white men get a pass for racism, as long as they are prominent Democrats.

Joe Biden? Well, he has less power as the VP than he did as Senator.

Robert Byrd? Um, he spent *decades* trying to make up for the racism he had in his early life.

Harry Reid? Well, Obama *can* code switch, and he isn't really the darkest-skinned guy, so...what's the problem?

 

[ravdin]

Here's one that just happened:

And you just bolstered my claim that "liberalism" is defined by falling in line with the Democratic party and its politicians.

 

[sunmaster14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

It is not tu quoque. It would have been tu quoque if ravdin had argued that it is ok for him to support a Republican racist because his interlocutor has supported a Democratic racist. But he was instead supporting my argument that to a large extent people view comments as either racist or not through the prism of the commenter's known political affiliation. My argument had nothing to do with Sterling per se. It was about how racism is subjective, and it was in response to an assertion by another poster that "most conservatives tend to go or remain silent when one of their own makes obviously racist comments."

 

[ABC10]

Joe Biden? Well, he has less power as the VP than he did as Senator.

Robert Byrd? Um, he spent *decades* trying to make up for the racism he had in his early life.

Harry Reid? Well, Obama *can* code switch, and he isn't really the darkest-skinned guy, so...what's the problem?

I adore Joe Biden. He is a decent, loyal, hard working supportive American in every way. So proud of him at Shannon's funeral as he represented us.
Byrd failed "making up". In my mind, he had a Klan mind and attitude to the end.

 

[Neally]

I'd like to recommend Michael McCann's piece,


What's next for NBA in Donald Sterling case from a legal standpoint?

Especially his outlining of the issues the NBA is going to face authenticating the recording.

Equally important:

They would ask Sterling questions ranging from why he made racist remarks to whether his attitudes about race have in any way impacted the Clippers business model. The NBA's primary interest is ensuring that no team conducts itself in ways that violates discrimination laws, whether it be in the hiring and retention of team staff to the sales of tickets and merchandise. Also, federal and state civil rights laws prohibit privately owned businesses that offer entertainment from discriminating on the basis of race.

At this point, there is no reason to believe that the Clippers as a team discriminate on the basis of race. Along those lines, Sterling's personal views about African-Americans and even African-Americans at Clippers games do not prove that his business acts in racist ways.

Bottom line, what exactly can or should be done to a business owner who stated something offensive in a private conversation? Can't fire him as in the Mozilla debacle. Can't fine him as detailed in the article. Boycott? That hurts the employees. Employees can't quit, they're under contract. Must be frustrating for the thought police, but I'm confident they'll find a way.

 

[A'isha]

My argument had nothing to do with Sterling per se. It was about how racism is subjective, and it was in response to an assertion by another poster that "most conservatives tend to go or remain silent when one of their own makes obviously racist comments."

No, it wasn't. It was about you disputing DavidJames' statement that " Liberals criticize and mock the nut bag while conservatives dribble out tu quoque's, non sequiturs, and false equivalencies."

Something that you've now been given multiple examples of.

 

[Cain]

So Magic Johnson and his shadowy partners are now interested in buying the Clippers. It's clear #32 plotted this like a fastbreak.

1) Show up to the game with Sterling's half-black girlfriend, arousing Sterling's well-known anger.
2) Get her to record the slob complaining about Magic and his employee/co-conspirator Matt Kemp
3) Shame the league into forcing the sale of the Clippers.

People say the world's controlled by the Jews, and maybe that's true, but one thing's for certain: Magic Johnson has a seat at the table.

 

[ABC10]

Holy cow, it's as if a bug in the forum software is causing random posts to bleed over from unrelated threads.

Huh? You made claims about how the media is treating the story which you failed to backup. Please provide evidence of...




Nova Land is the poster who debunked the misleading things you posted up thread. I strongly suggest you review the proceedings. Are you even reading the thread?

<< my exceedingly rare double-confused indicator

I'm tempted to whip out the triple-confused indicator.

I'd point out that evidence has been posted of Sterling's racism in the past, before "poor Don" was 81 years old. However it doesn't appear that you're even bothering to read the thread.

Here's a thought. How about being proactive and turn on the TV checking out the commentators to see and hear them. The proof is in the pudding. It's right out there, front and center.
So olde Don is not only breaking his marriage vows but a racist too? Who cares? I have no interest in defending him.
Let's put olde Nova to rest. What evidence and "misleading" statements??
BTW, this has been a hoot so far, but will only be getting better this afternoon when Rev. Al and Big Ed take to the airways.
I'll bite! What is a double, triple (assume quadriple secret) confused indicator?

 

[ABC10]

So Magic Johnson and his shadowy partners are now interested in buying the Clippers. It's clear #32 plotted this like a fastbreak.

1) Show up to the game with Sterling's half-black girlfriend, arousing Sterling's well-known anger.
2) Get her to record the slob complaining about Magic and his employee/co-conspirator Matt Kemp
3) Shame the league into forcing the sale of the Clippers.

People say the world's controlled by the Jews, and maybe that's true, but one thing's for certain: Magic Johnson has a seat at the table.

There are 13.5 million Jews in the world. Saying that 7 Billion are controlled by them must be delusional, particularly in those Muslim Arab Controlled countries from which the "Jews" are long gone. True, the Jews are smarter than anyone but even they have some limitations.
If Magic is so great why is he not leading a massive movement against Don, the NBA, and any other kind of stuff to support stopping racism ? I am not impressed with Magic, although like Don know a little something about sexual promiscuity. as evidenced by his HIV status.

 

[sunmaster14]

No, it wasn't. It was about you disputing DavidJames' statement that " Liberals criticize and mock the nut bag while conservatives dribble out tu quoque's, non sequiturs, and false equivalencies."

Note that a large part of the disagreement arises from the fact that many liberals view conservatism as inherently racist. Those people are inclined to view any ambiguous or borderline comments through the prism of that view. The opposite effect allows those same liberals to forgive unfortunate comments by, say, Harry Reid, Joe Biden, and the late Robert Byrd (a particularly poignant example). In a way, publicly subscribing to liberal views acts as a shield against accusations of racism.

That's because a lot of people define "liberalism" as standing by the Democratic party and its politicians, no matter what.

I suppose ravdin can speak for himself, but since he found quotes from the three liberal politicians I named, and only those three, I think it makes more sense to assume that he was rounding out my other argument.

Something that you've now been given multiple examples of.

I think I've addressed all examples provided so far and showed them deficient.

 

[newyorkguy]

Can I add two other things to the pot?

• V. Stiviano is reportedly thirty-eight-years old.
• Magic Johnson is HIV-positive

 

[KatieG]

There are 13.5 million Jews in the world. Saying that 7 Billion are controlled by them must be delusional, particularly in those Muslim Arab Controlled countries from which the "Jews" are long gone. True, the Jews are smarter than anyone but even they have some limitations.
If Magic is so great why is he not leading a massive movement against Don, the NBA, and any other kind of stuff to support stopping racism ? I am not impressed with Magic, although like Don know a little something about sexual promiscuity. as evidenced by his HIV status.

Really? Do you have evidence to support that statement?