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Doing the least to save your life...

I think it's Chinese and I believe the quote is somethig like:

May you live in interesting times.

No doubt some clever bugger will come along with the correct info soon. :)

That's it exactly. "Interesting times," are never the times of pleasantry, peace, and calm. They're nearly always famine-filled, war-filled, tyranny-filled, jelly-filled, plaque-filled, and generally suffering-filled.
 
Hey fowl... Beautifully and powerfully written. I'm going to print this out and give it to a friend of mine who's father is very ill and has been sucked in by some fraudulent peddlers of alternative treatment.

Thank you.
 
This question leaked into another thread from this one, so I brought it back here.

The guy is a walking miracle thanks to science and yet people have felt the need to throw garbage in his face like, "Your body is too acidic," or, "You did something to deserve this." They offer him sugar pills and magic water and poo-poo the stuff that actually saved his life and call it, "poison."

Wouldn't you be angry?
Well I guess I would be if I had experienced all that.

fowlsound,
I read your paper with interest.

What do you think would have happened if you had been treated using alternative medicine at any point?

How does your anger serve you? Does it protect you from using bogus treatments?

How in control of your life do you feel?

I wish you a full recovery.
 
...
What do you think would have happened if you had been treated using alternative medicine at any point?

How does your anger serve you? ....

I believe he said he would be dead. Something you would have noticed if you had read it. See (quoting from the first message in this thread):
100 years ago I would have died as an infant, and 50 years ago I would have been paralyzed - if not dead. What I mean specifically is that without properly blinded studies, peer reviewed publication, the removal of emotion when gathering knowledge (removing confirmation bias and cherry picking of evidence), and the self correcting nature of scientific advancement there would have been absolutely no chance for me.

Edited to add: His anger may have to do with those who do not stop to understand what they are saying.
 
I believe he said he would be dead. Something you would have noticed if you had read it.
I am not sure that using alternative medicine is the same as not using doctors. Which of magic water, changing your diet or Vitamin C kills you?
 
This question leaked into another thread from this one, so I brought it back here.


Well I guess I would be if I had experienced all that.

fowlsound,
I read your paper with interest.

What do you think would have happened if you had been treated using alternative medicine at any point?

How does your anger serve you? Does it protect you from using bogus treatments?

How in control of your life do you feel?

I wish you a full recovery.


What would have happened? I would be dead. plain and simple. No alternative treatment would do anything to cure what I have.

How does your anger serve you? How in control of your life do you feel?

Piss off.
 
Thanks for that, Fowlsound... I was wondering how I could link it over at the skepchick.org site but Mr Jackson (thanks!) said he'd put it up and that's brilliant. I have a few people in mind who should definitely read it. :)
 
I am not sure that using alternative medicine is the same as not using doctors. Which of magic water, changing your diet or Vitamin C kills you?


In leiu of treatment? They all kill you because teh cancer kills you.

Actually read the paper, don't just look at the pictures.
 
In leiu of treatment? They all kill you because teh cancer kills you.

Actually read the paper, don't just look at the pictures.

What about the placebo effect. You benefit from that surely? Otherwise double-blind trials would be a waste of time, n'est-ce pas?
 
What about the placebo effect. You benefit from that surely? Otherwise double-blind trials would be a waste of time, n'est-ce pas?


Are you for real?

Do you want to gamble your life on the placebo effect? It is not 100%. It's more like 20% (or somewhere around there. med folks, help me out with that #?) There is no PLACEBO that cures CANCER.
 
Are you for real?

Do you want to gamble your life on the placebo effect?

Sure, but I wouldn't stop at one, I'd use several.

It is not 100%.
No, it's not. What is?

It's more like 20% (or somewhere around there. med folks, help me out with that #?) There is no PLACEBO that cures CANCER.

What about the people who get better without using doctors?
 
Sure, but I wouldn't stop at one, I'd use several.


No, it's not. What is?



What about the people who get better without using doctors?



love, I am trying to decide whether you are honest in this line of questioning or if you are trolling.

Ok let's put it this way:

You have multiple myeloma. Do you attempt to shrink your many tumors using, say, Revlimid, which is tested and shown to have a high effective rate in shrinking tumors (well over 85%) or would you take the sugar pill (20%?)

If you choose placebo you are worthy of a Darwin Award.

Do you have a point here, or are you just trolling?



ETA: show me one placebo that puts back the vertabrae destroyed by the tumor I had in my spine. Are you honestly suggesting that homeopathy could have cured that condition?

Did you even read the paper, or are you talking out of your rear?
 
What about the people who get better without using doctors?
What people with cancer get better without using doctors? I imagine it would be those who don't have cancer but imagine they do so if they imagine they took something for their imaginary cancer they could imagine they got better and they would be better in their imagination if you can imagine that.
 
Sure, but I wouldn't stop at one, I'd use several.

Yes, clearly employing multiple placebo effects is the future of medicine...

So if you were diagnosed with cancer, you would:

a.) take a bunch of Vitamin C

b.) pray like the dickens

c.) wear a healing crystal around your neck

d.) wear a copper bracelet while lying on a mattress filled with tiny magnets

e.) and gulp handfulls of sugarpills

f.) (insert other hokey bunch of jackalope crap here)


If so, well.... good luck with that.
 
Sure, but I wouldn't stop at one, I'd use several.

In the awful event that you're ever diagnosed with cancer, make sure to keep a detailed log and let us know how sampling from the placebo dessert tray works out for you.

It's funny that for thousands of years humanity had nothing but placebos with which to treat their diseases. They had placebos coming out the wazoo. A cornucopia of placebos of many different shapes, sizes, and styles. Yet they lived dramatically shorter lives overall and died much more rapidly when they were diagnosed with diseases.

I wonder why that is?
 
thanks FS. That is an excellent piece. It will come in handy.


Love's comments are exactly why your paper is needed. Thank you again.
 
love, I am trying to decide whether you are honest in this line of questioning or if you are trolling.
Although I may be coming from a very different viewpoint to you, and certainly had very different experiences, I am interested in what you think and feel. Maybe my interest is that I used to be a very angry person myself. And maybe also because I still feel some anger towards doctors.

Ok let's put it this way:

You have multiple myeloma. Do you attempt to shrink your many tumors using, say, Revlimid, which is tested and shown to have a high effective rate in shrinking tumors (well over 85%) or would you take the sugar pill (20%?)
Well, I would use all my healing tools, and attempt to determine the underlying cause of the disease. I would likely only use Revlimid as a last resort. I would bascially just do, whatever I felt to.

I do use homeopathy. Last time I had dental pain, for example, I treated myself using a homeopathic remedy. I guess I am just one of those 20%. Perhaps I am extra suggestible.

If you choose placebo you are worthy of a Darwin Award.
I think that's an exaggeration, and you know it. ;)

Do you have a point here, or are you just trolling?
No, I'm just kind of curious, because my experience is so different to yours.

Please help me here. What does this stand for?

show me one placebo that puts back the vertabrae destroyed by the tumor I had in my spine.
The Body Mirror System of Healing, for example. It helped cure a family member of scoliosis. There are many others. I could offer you a remote healing. As I am so far away, I am fairly sure you won't punch me in the face.

Are you honestly suggesting that homeopathy could have cured that condition?
The condition, yes. But I am not sure you are open to being cured that way. You seem to have more faith in the miracles of modern medicine.

In the end, I believe people heal when they take responsibility for their own health.

Did you even read the paper, or are you talking out of your rear?
Yes. It seemed very passionately argued.
 

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