Merged Does 'rape culture' accurately describe (many) societies?

[Poem]

....I'm all for adults having access to porn.

Are you for Pornhub?

 

[Darat]

Are you for Pornhub?

Not following you with your fringe reset. If you can't already work out the answer to that from my posts in this thread that's your problem not mine.

 

[Poem]

You do. Even if you don't say it outright, your proposal to ban porn would put it out of the reach of education. Teaching children what it is and how it works would be illegal under your regime.

You haven't demonstrated that.

That has been going on literally forever, and we've been watching society change. It hasn't changed... radically (whatever that even means). It has changed, but porn has not been a huge influence on it. To be specific:

1. Women have been objectified literally since paleolithic times.
2. Violent and abusive porn is performance, like violence and abuse in movies in general, and when it isn't, it's already illegal.

Plenty of the real thing on Pornhub et al. Porn, generally (as already noted), contains real sex. Porn films are not the same as movies.

1. Barely legal is another term for perfectly legal.

Barely legal is a breadcrumb trail for many consumers...and you know it.

Furthermore, it has been demonstrated repeatedly that people can compartmentalise movies from reality. Watching violent movies or playing violent roleplaying games does not make people more violent. In fact, there is a slight negative correlation.

Violent Movies and Severe Acts of Violence: Sensationalism versus Science


Does media violence predict societal violence? It depends on what you look at and when.

Like we have established - porn has real sex that can be (and is) copied. Many folk do just that.

Who as I have said is a priori moralistically biased against porn due to her Catholic faith and values, and who bases her opinions on the self-reports of children who are psychologically motivated by shame and guilt to lie about their intentions.

She may be biased, sure, but are you saying porn consumers aren't? In any case, most Christians, just like most others, watch porn.

Also, I said they 'can' stumble on porn. I said before, a young person will not necessarily have an adult's understanding that certain images and links are a lure..

You can't accidentally stumble across porn*. Even on X formerly known as Twitter I had to actually go looking for it, using specific search terms. I have been on Twitter since 2008, when one posted by sending an SMS message from your phone to a particular number. In all that time I have never - never once - accidentally stumbled across porn. You are being lied to. And yes, you are being lied to by the UK Commissioner, whose word you apparently take as gospel.

See above.

I do not. And if it happens to be the case that this is true then

But zero evidence. Evidence that the Children's Commissioner is way off is what?

One more thing. We aren't talking about eight- or nine-year olds. An eight-year old has no real understanding or interest in pornographic content because kids only start getting horny in their teens. Generally around age thirteen or fourteen, though the exact age will vary. That is the age at which sex education should be mandatory.

Citation.

 

[Poem]

Not following you with your fringe reset. If you can't already work out the answer to that from my posts in this thread that's your problem not mine.

A fringe reset means what?

 

[Poem]

Though I doubt very much that Poem has actually seen any porn.

I said earlier in the thread that I had seen porn. Perhaps you can explain why you think that isn't the case?

 

[Poem]

Is it worth the risk of being caught and prosecuted, and potentially spending years in jail?

Apparently, yes. You have information that that actually has happened to staff at Pornhub et al? Or are they just given a slap on the wrist?

 

[Poem]

You should point out even one instance where I have said that we should let children access adult material, or withdraw that statement.

Children are accessing such content but your only fix is to educate them to deal with that.

But your position appears to be that we should accept that vague and ill-defined "harms" are sufficient reason to ban adults from accessing adult material.

I spent a lot of time detailing those harms earlier in the thread. The UK's OSA won't stop children seeing porn.

I thought innocent until proven guilty was the default standard in law.

So you do think Porn is innocent in this respect. That means your default is to do nothing does it not?

 

[Poem]

Yes, that's literally what happened. The authorities cracked down on illegal content and PornHub changed its policies. A lot of other sites did too, by the way. PornHub isn't the only one out there. The fact that PornHub was caught with its pants down actually led to a rise in self-managed subscription sites like OnlyFans and Fanvue.


Well, it's kind of difficult when you can't back it up with links. I've demonstrated that NC and CSAM are against PornHub's terms and conditions. I don't have access to their moderation controls (and neither do you) but I can say that PornHub removes content all the time. I'm not sure what kind of stronger evidence I can give on this forum.

NBC News:
The Aylo spokesperson claimed in the email to NBC that “the FTC’s complaints all stem from 2020 or earlier.”

However, an FTC spokesperson disputed that, saying that while some of the accusations in the agency’s complaint refer to conduct before 2020, other general allegations are ongoing and deliberately written in the present tense.

FTC Takes Action Against Pornhub...... (3 Sept 2025)

Statement of FTC commissioner Mark R. Meador (3 Sept 2025):
Aylo remains in business today, mostly unburdened by the crippling financial liabilities that it rightly owes its victims, because Congress has not yet acted to restore Section 13(b) to its full strength. Those interested in curbing the abusive and destructive practices of this company— and, indeed, this industry—are invited to provide the Commission with the tools needed to do justice.

You, on the other hand, say Pornhub is reputable.

 

[arthwollipot]

The conflation of sex and porn continues.

You're the one who says that porn sex is real sex.

 

[Poem]

You're the one who says that porn sex is real sex.

it is.

 

[Poem]

I was saying this over a month ago. There's plenty of child grooming and predation happening on the Internet. Porn is probably the least of our concerns when it comes to child safety online. Poem dismissed the idea then, but seems to take it very seriously now.

That Guardian article:
In an interview with the Observer, Ian Critchley, the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) lead for child protection, said that access to violent pornography and misogynistic content via smartphones was contributing to a “hugely concerning” trend.

I think you have misunderstood my previous response grooming and predation.

 

[arthwollipot]

And okay, now you're responding to weeks-old posts. That's cool, I can work with that.

You haven't demonstrated that.

Your own words demonstrate that.

Plenty of the real thing on Pornhub et al. Porn, generally (as already noted), contains real sex. Porn films are not the same as movies.

Why not?

Barely legal is a breadcrumb trail for many consumers...and you know it.

I don't, actually.

Like we have established - porn has real sex that can be (and is) copied. Many folk do just that.

Citation?

I said earlier in the thread that I had seen porn. Perhaps you can explain why you think that isn't the case?

Because you appear to have an opinion of it that is not firmly grounded in reality.

Apparently, yes. You have information that that actually has happened to staff at Pornhub et al? Or are they just given a slap on the wrist?

How do you think I would have that information? Do you think I am an employee of PornHub? I am not. One thing that I think you don't know about PornHub (which is why I believe you haven't actually seen much porn) is that PornHub does not produce porn. It aggregates porn from other sites and from user uploads. PornHub is not a production company, it is a distribution company. As such, I'm pretty sure that not very many employees of PornHub have been arrested for production of illegal porn. And as I have demonstrated by posting their user terms and conditions upthread, they do not allow others to host illegal porn on their site.

Children are accessing such content but your only fix is to educate them to deal with that.

Since you cannot stop children accessing it, education about how to approach it with understanding and maturity is the only real option.

I spent a lot of time detailing those harms earlier in the thread. The UK's OSA won't stop children seeing porn.

No you didn't. You just said that children were being harmed. Vague and nonspecific. I have been upfront about the one way in which I think children (by which I actually mean teenagers) viewing porn without understanding and context may be harmed - that they may develop an unrealistic expectation of what real sex with another human being is or should be like. Boys might suffer anxiety when they find that their penises aren't as big as the ones that porn actors have. Education will tell them that male porn actors are selected for their extraordinarily large penises, and that is not a reflection on the general population. Girls might think that they are expected to be bisexual when in fact many or even most female porn actors are "gay for pay" and it is perfectly okay for them not to be.

You have asserted that they will act out scenes that they see in porn, you have not demonstrated this to be the case in anywhere near as well as I have demonstrated otherwise. The scenes that they see in legal porn are either scripted and directed with lighting and cinematography, or amateurs who upload clips themselves because they get off on it.

So you do think Porn is innocent in this respect. That means your default is to do nothing does it not?

Until guilt is proved, innocent is the default. This is the standard legal principle across the civilised world. You have not proved guilt sufficiently to reach your stated goal of banning all porn.

You, on the other hand, say Pornhub is reputable.

In the scheme of things, compared to some dark web sites, yes absolutely. It at least has a policy of prohibiting illegal content, and while it is true that enforcement could be better, they do try, and clips are removed from the site all the time. You, on the other hand, are tarring all porn with its worst excesses. It's like taking the Westboro Baptist Church as the representative of all Christianity.

it is.

Real sex does not have a director telling the participants what to do and how to emote, a cinematographer ensuring that they are in the best "open-to-camera" positions, lighting and sound technicians all in the room as they are doing it to make sure that everything is perfect, and fluffers to ensure that the man stays hard between takes.

And when the sex is real, then if it is legal it is consensual, and what exactly is the problem with that?

 

[Poem]

??? Or else?

Are you okay with shown porn to children? If not, why not? You think it is harmless don't you? You couldn't care less if they see it right?

So? Then why does it matter if it is recorded, talked about, etc?

'Sex' is not the same as 'porn'. If we ban porn we don't ban sex, right?

As I said, this entire thread. Porn is nothing more than depictions of sex. If you didn't have a problem with sex, why object to depictions of sex?

If you think porn causes no harms then let's broadcast it in every public place.

 

[arthwollipot]

If you think porn causes no harms then let's broadcast it in every public place.

This is as vacuous an argument as any I've seen.

 

[Poem]

This is as vacuous an argument as any I've seen.

You appear unable to express what it is about porn that is harmful.

 

[arthwollipot]

You appear unable to express what it is about porn that is harmful.

Ahem.

No you didn't. You just said that children were being harmed. Vague and nonspecific. I have been upfront about the one way in which I think children (by which I actually mean teenagers) viewing porn without understanding and context may be harmed - that they may develop an unrealistic expectation of what real sex with another human being is or should be like. Boys might suffer anxiety when they find that their penises aren't as big as the ones that porn actors have. Education will tell them that male porn actors are selected for their extraordinarily large penises, and that is not a reflection on the general population. Girls might think that they are expected to be bisexual when in fact many or even most female porn actors are "gay for pay" and it is perfectly okay for them not to be.

 

[Poem]

In the scheme of things, compared to some dark web sites, yes absolutely. It at least has a policy of prohibiting illegal content, and while it is true that enforcement could be better, they do try, and clips are removed from the site all the time.

Wow.

No mention whatsoever of the FTC references I made? You must have your head in sand if you still think Pornhub et al are what you claim. And who built Pornhub?

You, on the other hand, are tarring all porn with its worst excesses. It's like taking the Westboro Baptist Church as the representative of all Christianity.

WBC is an off the scale extreme version of Christianity AFAIK.

Pornhub is the same?

 

[arthwollipot]

WBC is an off the scale extreme version of Christianity AFAIK.

Pornhub is the same?

I'm literally saying that it isn't. Please, read for comprehension.

 

[Poem]

I'm literally saying that it isn't. Please, read for comprehension.

PH is mainstream - WBC isn't.

Do you disagree with this Statement of FTC commissioner Mark R. Meador (3 Sept 2025):
Aylo remains in business today, mostly unburdened by the crippling financial liabilities that it rightly owes its victims, because Congress has not yet acted to restore Section 13(b) to its full strength. Those interested in curbing the abusive and destructive practices of this company— and, indeed, this industry—are invited to provide the Commission with the tools needed to do justice.

 

[acbytesla]

The irrelevant obsession continues.

Nothing irrelevant about it. In fact it is why you are on this crusade. You believe in that stupid fairy tale.

The conflation of sex and porn continues.

They're related. And you know it.