Does racial disparity= racist policy?

[Hercules56]

Let's see how the forum feels about this.

According to the Civil Rights Act, if the results of a policy or civil service exam shows some sort of disparity in race or ethnicity, it shall be assumed that the policy or exam is inherently and by actual design, racist.

Do you accept this? Do you believe any time the results of a policy do not in some way reflect the general population makeup, racism is clearly afoot?

 

[Hercules56]

In my highly professional view (yes I do have one), simple racial disparity in itself is NOT enough to prove racist intent and design, and therefore affirmative actions or reperations is deserved and justified.

Most NHL players are white. This is NOT due to racist selection in hiring practices.

Most of the NFL is not-white. Again, not due to racist intent.

Jews make up 2% of the USA, yet they do not make up even 1% of many professions, like coal mining, Marines, dog catchers, etc. Does this PROVE anti-Semitic hiring policies? Nope.

 

[Myriad]

Do you accept this?

So far I don't accept that that's what the Civil Rights Act actually says, but I'm open to evidence.

 

[dirtywick]

Most of the NFL is not-white. Again, not due to racist intent.

the accusations of racism in nfl hiring practices are specifically related quarterbacks and coaching positions. for example, when brian flores sued the nfl for discrimination, there was only 1 black head coach of 32 teams in a league where 70% of the league is black. this was in 2022.

well there's a ton of data and articles out there about racism in the nfl if you're interested in learning more about it. it's actually a really long and complex topic

 

[chrispy]

the accusations of racism in nfl hiring practices are specifically related quarterbacks and coaching positions. for example, when brian flores sued the nfl for discrimination, there was only 1 black head coach of 32 teams in a league where 70% of the league is black. this was in 2022.

well there's a ton of data and articles out there about racism in the nfl if you're interested in learning more about it. it's actually a really long and complex topic

He can just ask Doug Williams, Cash Cunningham, McNabb, etc. I guess he can ask the ghost of Rush Limbaugh for his, um, "informed" opinion on the subject while he is at it...

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Simple test: how long has it been ongoing, and is there anything being done to alleviate the problem?

 

[Thermal]

Racism.does not have to mean racist hiring practices. Like, you could argue that there are more white guys in professional positions because they grew up under a stronger educational system that afforded them better opportunity for academic success. The poorer systems were disproportionately from.low income areas, which became poor because of demonstrable generational racism.

You could also argue that many young poor black kids, lacking educational opportunities, focused on athletic excellence.

In both cases, the pool was larger to choose from along racial lines, not because a racist choice was made, but because racism from the past influenced the demographics of the pool.

 

[Hercules56]

Simple test: how long has it been ongoing, and is there anything being done to alleviate the problem?

Do you think the lack of blacks in the NHL is a problem? What about the lack of Asians in all professional sports?

 

[Thermal]

the accusations of racism in nfl hiring practices are specifically related quarterbacks and coaching positions. for example, when brian flores sued the nfl for discrimination, there was only 1 black head coach of 32 teams in a league where 70% of the league is black. this was in 2022.

Right, but coaching and playing are not the same thing. They are entirely different skill sets. Most outstanding players do not go on to become coaches, and there's a reason for that. I wouldn't expect, say, a university professor to be representative of the student body either. They are drawn from different pools.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

One question is: what is the ratio of qualified applicants to those being accepted?
I would assume that far fewer Asians than Blacks, as a % of their population, try to get into professional sports. So it is no indication of discrimination that there are fewer actually playing at that level.

of course, being a snob, I kinda had the sense that encouraging non-whites to play sports professionally (instead of going into academics) was a kind of discrimination.

 

[Hercules56]

One question is: what is the ratio of qualified applicants to those being accepted?
I would assume that far fewer Asians than Blacks, as a % of their population, try to get into professional sports. So it is no indication of discrimination that there are fewer actually playing at that level.

of course, being a snob, I kinda had the sense that encouraging non-whites to play sports professionally (instead of going into academics) was a kind of discrimination.

So you're suggesting that the number of applicants to a job plays a major role in if their racial disparity in a position is a result of racism?

I think a lot of Progressives would argue that the number of applications is immaterial. All that matters is that if blacks do not represent around 50% the number of teachers, Doctors, firemen, police in a community where they make up say 50%....then there MUST be racism afoot and some sort of remedy must be created, including hiring quotas and reperations.

 

[dirtywick]

Right, but coaching and playing are not the same thing. They are entirely different skill sets. Most outstanding players do not go on to become coaches, and there's a reason for that. I wouldn't expect, say, a university professor to be representative of the student body either. They are drawn from different pools.

you would be surprised to find black university professors?

 

[catsmate]

So far I don't accept that that's what the Civil Rights Act actually says, but I'm open to evidence.

Indeed. But mere facts have no place in threads like this

 

[catsmate]

I think a lot of Progressives would argue that the number of applications is immaterial. All that matters is that if blacks do not represent around 50% the number of teachers, Doctors, firemen, police in a community where they make up say 50%....then there MUST be racism afoot and some sort of remedy must be created, including hiring quotas and reperations.

Evidence for this assertion?

 

[Thermal]

you would be surprised to find black university professors?

No, and not what I said, either. I said I wouldn't expect the professors racial makeup to have any relation to the student body, because the professors are not drawn from the demographic pool of the student body. Having all black professors with an all white student body would not surprise me either. Do we have bad acoustics in here or something?

 

[Brainster]

the accusations of racism in nfl hiring practices are specifically related quarterbacks and coaching positions. for example, when brian flores sued the nfl for discrimination, there was only 1 black head coach of 32 teams in a league where 70% of the league is black. this was in 2022.

well there's a ton of data and articles out there about racism in the nfl if you're interested in learning more about it. it's actually a really long and complex topic

I don't doubt you might encounter racism at the ownership level; these days it would be surprising if you encountered it at the coaching level. I used to keep track of quarterback statistics back in the late 1980s to early 1990s, and this was a pretty hot topic at the time, so I took a look at it over several years. If it was true that Black QBs had to be significantly better than White QBs, this should show up in the aggregate statistics. Overall, Black QBs should have better numbers than White QBs. But that was not what I found, and I didn't find the opposite either; in fact I found the stats to be almost eerily similar.
Now I'll be the first to admit that it wasn't always that way; I can remember the controversy over James Harris starting for the Rams. He clearly showed that he was an above-average quarterback, but he was dispatched to San Diego so local golden boy Pat Haden could play.

 

[Hercules56]

Evidence for this assertion?

The Civil Rights Act basically says that if an outcome has a racial disparity, such as voting districts, it shall be assumed that it is racist by design.

 

[dirtywick]

I don't doubt you might encounter racism at the ownership level; these days it would be surprising if you encountered it at the coaching level. I used to keep track of quarterback statistics back in the late 1980s to early 1990s, and this was a pretty hot topic at the time, so I took a look at it over several years. If it was true that Black QBs had to be significantly better than White QBs, this should show up in the aggregate statistics. Overall, Black QBs should have better numbers than White QBs. But that was not what I found, and I didn't find the opposite either; in fact I found the stats to be almost eerily similar.
Now I'll be the first to admit that it wasn't always that way; I can remember the controversy over James Harris starting for the Rams. He clearly showed that he was an above-average quarterback, but he was dispatched to San Diego so local golden boy Pat Haden could play.

i think that the stats were eerily similar supports that black players weren't getting the same opportunities as white players. black qbs weren't worse, they were just as good, just not given opportunities. coaching is the same, very few opportunities, when they get them some succeed and some fail.

well this season was a record 15 of 32 starting qbs were black, still not quite proportionate but certainly better from a full off season of headlines over how controversial it is for 1 or 2 from just decades ago.

regardless of how you feel about whether or not black people can do these jobs and it's simply meritocracy in action or there's a racial element, the only reason i brought it up was to point out how much more complex it is than 70% of the league is black boom roasted

 

[Hercules56]

My bad, I cited the Civil Rights Act when I meant to say the Voting Rights Act. The voting Rights act assumes racist intent if a new voting law appears to have a racial disparity that negatively affects minorities ability to have equal representation.

Well at least until the supreme Court struck that provision.

 

[theprestige]

Let's see how the forum feels about this.

According to the Civil Rights Act, if the results of a policy or civil service exam shows some sort of disparity in race or ethnicity, it shall be assumed that the policy or exam is inherently and by actual design, racist.

Do you accept this? Do you believe any time the results of a policy do not in some way reflect the general population makeup, racism is clearly afoot?

I'd have to see the passage you're interpreting, to have a decent answer. What part of the Civil Rights Act Voting Rights Act are you interpreting this way? What's the original text?