Does Israel Have The Right To Exist?

Does Israel have the right to exist?

  • No they do not! they should be driven back into the sea

    Votes: 9 12.9%

  • Yes, but they should return to the 1948 borders

    Votes: 29 41.4%

  • Yes, but return all land with the exception of Jerusalem

    Votes: 5 7.1%

  • Yes, and they should keep all land captured.

    Votes: 27 38.6%
  • Total voters
    70
  • Poll closed .
There is no definitive map. The one which is probably the best representation can be viewed at this official Israel Government website:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+Abo...rael+-within+boundaries+and+cease-fire+li.htm

You are welcome to browse all the various maps at that same Ministry of Foreign Affairs map webpage
HERE -- all maps © Koret Communications Ltd.


Israel's border was decided by treaty with Egypt along the western Negev, so that is settled. The Jordanian border was marked clearly by treaty, running the length of the Arava, up to Bait She'an and into the Golan Heights. The San Remo / Treaty of Sèvres (1923) Demaracation was used as a reference along the Lebanon border, and the UN recognized this as the "International Boundry" (BLUE LINE) between the nations (as indicated in UN Resolution 425).

Other borders are in dispute. The 1949 Rhodes Armistice Line is being bandied about as a "border" although it never really was.


I am here to tell you that you are wrong about guessing Israel's official maps resemble the ones published in the Palestinian Authority which say "PALESTINE" in place of all of Israel.


Parky76, should this New Palestine to be established on the other side of the '67 lines have a fully-equipped army?
 
a_unique_person said:
No, what does the current official Israel map look like. My guess is identical to Palestinian map of Palestine.
Click to expand...

Emphasis mine.

It's making "guesses" like that without even attempting to find the factual information that could lead someone to believe you are somewhat pre-judgmental when it comes to Israel.

About 2 minutes with google and I was able to find this current map of Israel on the Israeli government’s website. As you can see, it clearly marks territories captured in 1967 with a notation that their final status has not been determined.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+Abo...rael+-within+boundaries+and+cease-fire+li.htm
 
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a_unique_person said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Israel

Project Israel. Camera comes to Wikipedia. I wonder if they'll ever get around to documenting both sides of the argument with as much diligence and research? My guess is no.

<sigh> Hey, I can do that too.
Click to expand...

From your link:

Goals

* Create and maintain fair and unbiased information on Israel, including history, culture, and geography.
* Create guidelines and maintain standards for pages involving Israel.
* Work to bring Israel articles to the highest quality possible.
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It all seems very positive.

Do you have an issue with it?


Another quote from your link:

If a page is vandalized, follow regular procedure (see WP:VANDAL, WP:AIV). Please be vigilant to keep Israel fairly represented. There is a large anti-Israel sentiment in the world. Do not be biased towards Israel, simply state facts. However, protect pages against other biases.
Click to expand...

Do you think any of the anti-Israel organizations you get your info from tell their members not to be biased against Israel or for Palestinians?

Do you?
 
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webfusion said:
There is no definitive map. The one which is probably the best representation can be viewed at this official Israel Government website:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+Abo...rael+-within+boundaries+and+cease-fire+li.htm

You are welcome to browse all the various maps at that same Ministry of Foreign Affairs map webpage
HERE -- all maps © Koret Communications Ltd.


Israel's border was decided by treaty with Egypt along the western Negev, so that is settled. The Jordanian border was marked clearly by treaty, running the length of the Arava, up to Bait She'an and into the Golan Heights. The San Remo / Treaty of Sèvres (1923) Demaracation was used as a reference along the Lebanon border, and the UN recognized this as the "International Boundry" (BLUE LINE) between the nations (as indicated in UN Resolution 425).

Other borders are in dispute. The 1949 Rhodes Armistice Line is being bandied about as a "border" although it never really was.


I am here to tell you that you are wrong about guessing Israel's official maps resemble the ones published in the Palestinian Authority which say "PALESTINE" in place of all of Israel.


Parky76, should this New Palestine to be established on the other side of the '67 lines have a fully-equipped army?
Click to expand...

No, I just want the official map of Israel.
 
a_unique_person said:
You gave me a history of maps, a map that includes occupied territories. What is the actual government map of Israel?

For example, here is a map. It looks just like the Palestinian one, except it has Israel written on it.
Click to expand...

You seem confused. It seems to me that what you are asking for is what you already have.

You wanted an "official" map of Israel, and you got one published by the Israeli government. How is that not what you asked for?
 
The Israeli map that was presented by webfusion and Mycroft is an honest and reasonably even handed map of Israel from 2004. It clearly shows that some areas are under Israeli control but still subject to final negotiation. It even gives the historical background to Israel's control of those areas.

It is a normative map.

Perhaps AUP is asking to see an aspirational or positivist map of Israel. That is, a map which shows what Israel would like to have as its borders. I am sure that many people within Israel and within its military and governments have given thought to this. I am sure that many different competing maps have even been created by different people or groups. But it would appear that no consensus has been reached, let alone become government policy.

This is, I think, a good thing. Israel's final borders will depend on many factors, including those outside of Israel's control. It would be foolish to pre-empt those factors.

Finally, Israel is not unique in having borders that are not finalised. Australia's borders are not fully settled either in respect to East Timor and the Antarctic. UK has or has recently had border disputes with Spain and Argentina (among others).
 
Solitaire said:
If you look at the area where Israel exists on the Arabian Peninsula then you will see lots of green. By contrast move a hundred miles over into Saudi Arabia and you see lots of brown hot dry desert devoid of life. It's possible that if Israel had formed in the dry desert areas the arabs might not have payed it very much attention.
Click to expand...


My understanding was that the area where Israel exists also used to be barren and dry, but that the Israelis have spent lots of effort, money, technology, and time to make it green.
 
It does not justify dispossessing someone of their land.
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It was not their land. The arabs are squatters on jewish lands.
And as a result of war, they moved less than 100 miles from their homes, but remained in "palestine" anyway. Most people who were displaced in the decade of the 1940's did not fare quite so well.
 
webfusion said:
It was not their land. The arabs are squatters on jewish lands.
And as a result of war, they moved less than 100 miles from their homes, but remained in "palestine" anyway. Most people who were displaced in the decade of the 1940's did not fare quite so well.
Click to expand...

Suppose the Palestinians could prove that they are more closely related to David genetically than the European Jews that claim that the land is theirs? When the Palestinian ancestors stayed on the land and converted to to Islam were they automatically dispossessed of the right to the land?

Do you have some thoughts on what constitutes a Jew that is entitled to share in the benefits of land ownership in perpetuity? Do atheist Jews qualify? Do Mandeans or Samaritans qualify? Do Jews that convert to Christianity qualify?
 
I note that you conveniently ignore part two of my post.

As for the issue of jewish land, it is jewish land in perpetuity.
The question of "Who is a Jew" is constantly being debated. Feel free to do so, but it has nothing to do with the underlying historical and religious connection to Zion. The arab palestinians only have a tenuous and not very convincing claim to Zion. They have invented a myth of immense proportions, and even have you believing it.
 
Israel has no right to exist. It is a nation made up mostly of immigrants from another continent.

The same is true for the United States, Canada, and Australia.

...I won't hold my breath waiting for the American, Canadian, or Australian people to return full soveriegnity to the native populations.
 
Please post the quote where Ahmedinajad says "we seeks to dismantle the Zionist state through democratic elections and turning it into a bi-national state"

Please post a quote where Hamas says "we are against israel but do not seek its physical destruction. we seek only its political dismantling."
 
parky76 said:
Please post the quote where Ahmedinajad says "we seeks to dismantle the Zionist state through democratic elections and turning it into a bi-national state"

Please post a quote where Hamas says "we are against israel but do not seek its physical destruction. we seek only its political dismantling."
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I was referring to people here, which the poll was about.

The poll is flawed. It does not have an option, "Israel exists, but there are problems about it's legitimacy. Given that it exists, what is the best way to resolve the those problems for all concerned?"

Australia certainly has a long way to go to resolve it's issues of treatment of it's indigineous people, for example.
 
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