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Does "I" Exist? Or, Just a Concept?

kuroyume0161 said:
I must protest and protest and protest some more!

The brain is not a big lump of fat. It is a complex network of neurons as well as blood vessels supplying oxygen to keep those neurons firing and the brain cooled.

I highly recommend for you (and others as well) to watch the videos from the 2005 Skeptics Society Annual Conference: Brain, Mind and Consciousness. The brain is complex. It is the most complex system that we know exists!

Now all of your odd ideas make sense. You don't think there is a brain of any use in your head! ;)
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"I" am not my brain.
 
Of course not... ;)

You are your entire enclosed bodily system (which includes the brain). But to suggest that there is something else - a special ingredient - without providing a means to detect it objectively will not suffice.

There are two certain things: Cartesian Dualism and the 'Blank Slate' are dead concepts concerning the 'I' in the individual conscious observer.

Definitely watch the videos. Although this is an evil skeptics conference, most of the speakers are dedicated researchers in their related brain/mind/consciousness fields. And you'd be surprised to see how susceptible the 'I' is to its take on reality. Each of the three videos is just over 02h:30m, but the experience is worth it (there are some technically challenging portions).

And, if you are otherwise engaged, I'll surmise (very and overly generalized): there are definite and oft-repeated correlates to brain activity and stimuli (whether internal or external). If the seat of consciousness were not in the brain, such a correlation would not exist or would be found more pressing elsewhere. That we can dissect deficiencies (albethey tentively called that as these are deficiencies imparted by our expectations, not our systemic efficiencies) in our comprehension, focus, and overall grasp of observations by studying the brain and the occupier's responses says a great deal about the brain as arbiter of consciousness. If you view the videos, you'll also see that the determination of consciousness's rigorousness is called into question quite aptly.

I only desire that you partake of what can be gleaned from our poor, but rigorous, descriptions of what we know rather than ascertaining seeming qualities before closer examination.
 
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kuroyume0161 said:
Of course not... ;)

You are your entire enclosed bodily system (which includes the brain). But to suggest that there is something else - a special ingredient - without providing a means to detect it objectively will not suffice.
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So, it is not possible to have faith in yourself, let alone a God, correct? What is truth then? It's obviously a concept, but how is it contingent upon matter? Is there some standard by which matter holds each concept together? Or, are you sure it's not the other way around? How do concepts (via the five senses) get passed from one brain to the next? ... Wait! Hold on a second, did you just see that concept rush by? :D
 
Iacchus said:
Do you believe in who you are? That as an entity you are real? How do you know that anything else is real? Do you put your trust (faith) soley in science? Or, do you believe it's possible to believe things for youself? This is what I mean by having faith in yourself.
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Do not equate a my confidence in the value of science with faith. I believe nothing. I have ideas. Lots of them are wrong. They get revised when I find evidence that proves me wrong.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
Do not equate a my confidence in the value of science with faith. I believe nothing. I have ideas. Lots of them are wrong. They get revised when I find evidence that proves me wrong.
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Yes, but who is the authority on the matter? You or science?
 
Iacchus said:
Yes, but who is the authority on the matter? You or science?
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There is no authority, only evidence. If Newton said "The Moon is made of blue cheese", I wouldn't believe it, because all evience contradicts that. In logic, arguement from authority is very unsound.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
There is no authority, only evidence. If Newton said "The Moon is made of blue cheese", I wouldn't believe it, because all evience contradicts that. In logic, arguement from authority is very unsound.
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Neither am I asking you to accept my word for anything either.
 
Iacchus said:
Neither am I asking you to accept my word for anything either.
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I assure, that would never happen.

If you mean that you're somehow providing evidence, logic and reason, rather than merely expecting me to believe whatever you say, then I think you're doing a poor job of it.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
I assure, that would never happen.

If you mean that you're somehow providing evidence, logic and reason, rather than merely expecting me to believe whatever you say, then I think you're doing a poor job of it.
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I am just a salmon, trying to swim up stream.
 
kuroyume0161 said:
I highly recommend for you (and others as well) to watch the videos from the 2005 Skeptics Society Annual Conference: Brain, Mind and Consciousness. The brain is complex. It is the most complex system that we know exists!
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Thanks for the link! I had not realized that the videos were available!

I second your suggestion--I was at this conference, and it was tremendously invigorating to see just how much was known about consciousness. Certainly, there is quite a lot we do not know, but more importantly, we have sufficient evidence to completely dismiss some of our older notions (the Cartesian Theatre, for example) as not merely "not supported", but indeed contradicted by the evidence.

This is precisely the sort of thing that Iacchus, if he was serious about being interested in examining consciousness, should be interested in. I doubt very much that he will watch it. (especially since there are several hours of video there, and some of the more interesting bits are buried in the middle. As I write, a speaker is presenting research which demonstrates that "awareness" is not a global brain property, but rather the result of very specific brain pathways. Completely and utterly non-intuitive, but easy to demonstrate.

Great stuff.

Edited to add: Iacchus, if you actually do watch these videos, pay attention to the presentation by Christopher Koch.
 
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You're welcome, Mercutio.

It was difficult watching the videos as I was attempting to do work (programming) on my main monitor and place some attention on the videos on my second monitor. So much for work. ;) I found Koch's basketball video to be impressive. I missed that and literally rewatched the original video just to validate that indeed this had occurred. Then I laughed for a while. That must have been Iacchus! :)

(Edited to remove punch line on basketball video - sorry!)
 
Kuro, over on skeptic forum, there are links to the original of that video, which is a very powerful demonstration. There are also a few threads by people who were there, and some of the questions that did not get asked at the conference itself, thoughtfully saved from the trash bin.

I am listening to Susan Blackmore as I write...
 
Mercutio said:
Kuro, over on skeptic forum, there are links to the original of that video, which is a very powerful demonstration. There are also a few threads by people who were there, and some of the questions that did not get asked at the conference itself, thoughtfully saved from the trash bin.

I am listening to Susan Blackmore as I write...
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I downloaded the low-quality video sessions since the basically 1GB (!) session files were taking too long, even with ~200KB/s speeds (plus, the first one that I did try nearly finished and then FireFox sort of died. When I closed FireFox, it removed what had been nearly completely downloaded - Rule 8 repeated several times!). :)

Susan Blackmore was not only very interesting, but entertaining during the process as well!

Do you have a link? (skeptic forum? I thought this was the skeptic forum - hehe.)
 
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