• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Does God ever fail to keep his promises?

Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Jesus promised he would return within one generation. It's been 2,000 years and we're still waiting.
Click to expand...


One generation of what? Being a qualified theologist, I can inform you that Jesus was talking about one generation of giant sequoia, which has a ways to run yet.
 
Craig B said:
Why do insane forms of numerology have such a hold on certain kinds of human mind? This is prevalent in some fringe forms of Judaism and Christianity also, and I imagine there are Sikhs and Hindus too, sitting patiently counting all the letters in their holy books. The eccentricities of the disordered brain are fascinating to contemplate.
Click to expand...
People generally prefer bound situations which reduce the need to spend time figuring things out and allow for apparent stability. For a large number it reaches the point where they happily construct or accept some other's construction of a safe reality with special procedures/activities/talismans (etc.) designed to maintain this construct. The OP is a fine example of this.
 
kirstenholme said:
Anne Sexton worked columns of meaning into her poetry and wrote her life's work in stages. Mathematicians who cared enough could create all kinds of number patterns with it and she managed to keep her metre perfect at the same time. Is she a god too?
Click to expand...
I understand that she is indeed to some people............:):)
 
mikeb768 said:
On that great day,
what excuse will they say?
When so often they were shown the clear signs,
but they obstinately pushed them away.

Some say the flames will not touch them,
but for a brief short while.
Others disregard this completely,
and say “Nay we shall remain as dust in a pile”.

When the miracles are mentioned,
They say “I only believe what I see”.
And with that God presents to them chapter eighty nine verse three.

[Quran 89:3] “By the even and the odd.”


In the Quran God swears that what he is promising is true. God swears to us using a number of things to include: time (itself) [103:1], the moon [74:32], the ruddy glow of sunset [84:16], and by the even and the odd [89:3], among many others. But what is the meaning of this statement “By the even and the odd”?

If we examine the Quran closely we can see that it has been organized in a manner where some suras (chapters) are quite long while others are quite short. Also some ayats (versus) are also extremely short containing only a few words while others consist of entire paragraphs. It must be acknowledged that the statement which points us to search for and recognize this phenomenon of even and odd is made by God within the Quran. The perfect symmetry of the revelation although previously unknown can be easily seen today by anyone with the help of modern computers.

The total sum of all 114 suras in the Quran = 6555
For example “1+2+3+4....+112+113+114 = 6555”

The total sum of all the ayats in the Quran = 6236
For example “(Sura 1) has 7, (Sura 2) has 286, (Sura 3) has 200, etc. = 6236”

Now if we count the following:
Where the sura number and the number of ayats are both even, we get: 30
Where the sura number and the number of ayats are both odd, we get: 27
Where the sura number is even but the number of ayats are odd, we get: 27
Where the sura number is odd but the number of ayats are even, we get: 30

6555 6236
[30] [27]
[27] [30]​

*The example which I have shown can even be taken a step further by calculating the sum of all the ayats for all of the respective even and odd suras (and vice versa) to show a further layer of even and odd symmetry although this is not necessary as the contrast and symmetry should already be quite evident at this point. Although those who are still wondering and in doubt then please feel free.

What makes this so miraculous?
Many people are unaware of the fact that the revelation of the Quran did not come all at once but in stages. The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) received the revelation of the Quran in 114 sections and over a period of 23 years.

Consider the following:
-At any point during the prophet’s life he could have been killed or otherwise perished through sickness or death, thus leaving the structure and sequence broken and incomplete.
-The perfect symmetry of the revelation is something which has only been recently discovered and is not something which was known at the time of revelation.
-The Quran was (initially) transmitted orally and once the words left the prophet’s mouth there was no way to retract or edit the message.
-The Quran was memorized by the prophet as well as many of his followers during his life time and there is no disagreement between Muslims in regards to the integrity of the Quran today.
-In the Quran God promises to protect the integrity of the Quran [15:9], ”Verily, We have sent down the Qur'an and surely we will guard it from corruption”.

How can I verify the claims which have been made?
Simple. Open up any spread sheet and do the following:
-Step 1. Create a column counting down 1 to 114 (representing the suras).
-Step 2. Next open up a Quran and then in the 2nd column list the number of ayats that are found at the end each sura.
-Step 3. After checking to make sure the numbers are accurate then highlight either all of the even or all of the odd so that it is easy to quickly and easily differentiate between the two.
-Step 4. In the next four columns create labels as follows: Both even, Both odd, Sura even, Ayat odd.
-Step 5. In what should be the 7th column create a check sum to ensure that only the number one exist in each row, use the formula “=SUM(B3:B6)” for example
-Step 6. Example formulas which can be used just below the first six columns can be similar versions of “=SUM(A1:A114)”, “=SUM(B1:B114)”, “=SUM(B1:B114)”

[Example Photo] *The link to the example can be uploaded only after 15 forum posts have been made.

What other promises does God make in the Quran?
In addition to promise to protect the Quran. God has also provided us with detailed descriptions of a number other promises which include: The return of Jesus, The day Judgment day, Heaven, and Hell.

May God guide all of those who are sincere.
Click to expand...

Purl one, drop two.
 
hgc said:
One generation of what? Being a qualified theologist, I can inform you that Jesus was talking about one generation of giant sequoia, which has a ways to run yet.
Click to expand...

They were a tad short of those in bronze age Palestine. :D
 
Craig B said:
Why do insane forms of numerology have such a hold on certain kinds of human mind? This is prevalent in some fringe forms of Judaism and Christianity also, and I imagine there are Sikhs and Hindus too, sitting patiently counting all the letters in their holy books. The eccentricities of the disordered brain are fascinating to contemplate.
Click to expand...
I think they are fundamentally no different from computer gamers who collect tons of data on game's behavior trying to tease out probabilities coded into it. The difference of course is that in case of computer games probabilities actually exist, and can be found if you are patient enough. (Or if you meet the coder and get him sufficiently drunk.)
 
hgc said:
One generation of what? Being a qualified theologist, I can inform you that Jesus was talking about one generation of giant sequoia, which has a ways to run yet.
Click to expand...

What Jesus meant was that it will happen in whatever generation it happens in.

(This piece of somefisticated theology brought to you by tsig)
 
Mark6 said:
I think they are fundamentally no different from computer gamers who collect tons of data on game's behavior trying to tease out probabilities coded into it. The difference of course is that in case of computer games probabilities actually exist, and can be found if you are patient enough. (Or if you meet the coder and get him sufficiently drunk.)
Click to expand...

Numerology is less about using numbers to find a result than it is about wanting to end up with a specific result and then finding numbers that will get you there. The OP's count of ayat in the Qur'an doesn't include the basmalahs that open every sura but the ninth, for example.
 
Last edited:
hgc said:
One generation of what? Being a qualified theologist, I can inform you that Jesus was talking about one generation of giant sequoia, which has a ways to run yet.
Click to expand...
Are you sure? How long does it take a redwood tree to reach an age at which it can reproduce?
 
Craig B said:
Are you sure? How long does it take a redwood tree to reach an age at which it can reproduce?
Click to expand...


Jesus defines a generation as the longest lifespan of all the giant sequoias extant at the time he walked on Galilee waters.
 
MikeG said:
They were a tad short of those in bronze age Palestine. :D
Click to expand...


Get real, will ya? Jesus knows all about these things. Besides, a Cedar of Lebanon could have told him about its big cousins in the Redwood branch of the family. Also, read Book of Mormon -- Jesus' travels to North America are well documented.
 
I was going through some old family documents, and I found a very detailed and fascinating chart, dating to 1842, detailing quite exactly why Daniel's prophecies all pointed to a tremendous denoument in 1843. Chapter and verse.

It doesn't seem to have happened right on schedule, so I must conclude that, at least for those of us coming from an Abrahamic tradition, either God does not keep his promises, or the idea that there is a god who makes promises that we can figure out from scripture is crazy. Or both, of course.
 
bruto said:
I was going through some old family documents, and I found a very detailed and fascinating chart, dating to 1842, detailing quite exactly why Daniel's prophecies all pointed to a tremendous denoument in 1843. Chapter and verse.

It doesn't seem to have happened right on schedule, so I must conclude that, at least for those of us coming from an Abrahamic tradition, either God does not keep his promises, or the idea that there is a god who makes promises that we can figure out from scripture is crazy. Or both, of course.
Click to expand...
That was the "Great Disappointment". The Seventh Day Adventists originated from that event. They seem indeed to be crazy. My old grandmother was one.
 
MattusMaximus said:
Which god are we talking about?
Click to expand...

I think the god of the d'amm'it peoples of south-central Iberia - or Hibernia (never could keep those straight). Actually the source of a phrase in fairly common use I am told.:)

Hope this helps - oh, you might ask Ken Bacon(?) about this. I understand he is an expert on this sort of thing.........
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom