• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Does being a sceptic ever get you down?

Firstly, I dont want to sound patronising but I really do feel sorry for you guys who live in fundamentalist/woo areas..it must be a nightmare.

Yeah, being a skeptic is tough, but I have to admit to feeling ever so slightly smug that Ive got it right.. and that does sound arrogant because everyone thinks theyve got it right, but yknow what I mean?;) :p

It does irritate me that the burden of proof is on you as a logical rational and sane person to answer why you dont believe in etherial nonsense as opposed to them having to prove why they do:rolleyes:
 
My boss JUST discovered Loose Change and is buying it lock, stock, and barrel. Yes, I think it's hard and it does get me down sometimes. It's going to be a long week.
 
I just started a new job working for the University of Texas at Dallas and have been pleasently surprised by my cow-orkers. There are many through-and-through Texans here, but everyone is educated and willing to discuss things with a skeptical slant. My previous job was filled with idiots and I really am glad to be gone from there.
 
The only time I ever feel down about being a skeptic is when I see yet another lithe young strawberry blonde with pouty lips and perfect skin go all dewey-eyed over some frog-faced guru type, and I think, "That coulda been me!"

Other than that, it's cool.
 
i take great comfort in my skeptical viewpoint.

but yeah, humanity and it's susceptibility to such ignorant belief systems is a drag. i am surrounded by it too.

ps: hows this for a twist. i am a sound engineer for a living. mostly live work, some studio. mosltly big-ish touring shows and good stuff like that. some business theatre and seminar stuff too, boring as hell but it pays the bills. right now i am running sound for a woo convention and it's putting me in a bit of a bad mood. i share too many of richard dawkins opinions too suffer this one in complete silence. anyhow, it's the christian home schoolers get together and you couldn't find a worse example of either thing - christians and education. absolutely bottom of the barrel on both counts. my job being what it is i have to listen to every lecture.


pps: i'm going to have to have a drink tonight and maybe sin a little to get back to "normal". :)
 
Stellafane said:
The only time I ever feel down about being a skeptic is when I see yet another lithe young strawberry blonde with pouty lips and perfect skin go all dewey-eyed over some frog-faced guru type, and I think, "That coulda been me!"
Click to expand...

Maybe Penn & Teller's BS will get more popular, and debunking will suddenly become sexy.

Hey, it could happen!
 
I had the same problem for a while. I realize (or rationalize, if you prefer) now that I don't do it for the benefit of the person I'm debating, I do it for the benefit of anyone who may be reading who doesn't already hold whatever belief it is we're talking about.
 
Kiwiwriter said:
But mostly, I avoid debating them. It's a no-win situation. I used to argue with them, and now realize it's pointless. They are what they are. The God they worship apparently created them that way, which shows He has a sense of humor, I guess.

What I don't let them do is take over my children's education...I won't let them teach creation as a genuine theory in our public schools.
Click to expand...
But can you really separate the two?

If sensible people keep silent in our day-to-day interactions, we allow the fundamentalist memes to take hold and spread.

Many will believe them anyway. But if the religious lunacy goes unchallenged on the street, then people will fall into it who might not have done so if they had heard a rational argument.

Then, when time comes to vote on a new school board member, we have ourselves at least partly to blame if the candidate wins who opposes "Darwinism".

Someone has to stand up for reality in the face of this growing delusion, which is driven at the highest levels by both true believers and highly skilled manipulators.

And that's the dilemma. It's one I haven't yet worked out for myself, tho, I admit.
 
I don't know if it so much gets me down as it annoys me. I mean, it's SO FREAKIN' OBVIOUS, yet people still don't get it.

So, aside from the occassion urge to slit my wrists, I think that overall, I don't get down about being a skeptic. But smiling and nodding can get a bit tiresome.
 
The only suggestion I can offer is to be patient, very patient. Let's face it: you're fighting a battle in which you're vastly outnumbered by the enemy. In addition, you seem to be a very polite and non-confrontational person (please correct my if I'm wrong). IMO, the situation calls for subtle guerilla tactics.

For example, to avoid direct confrontation, just point them to a site that has the information you want to communicate, instead of saying it directly. Use deception if necessary (e.g., "I found this interesting site about homeopathy. Have you seen it?). This has the advantage that the message comes from the same source as most of the woo (i.e., the Internet), and that any initial reaction will be against the website authors, not against you, thereby defusing potential counterattacks. Another benefit is that it might improve the probability of victory: if you say they're wrong, they'll automatically assume a defensive stance; if they read the information with their guard down, there's a better chance they might see the light.

Use anecdotal evidence to your advantage. (OK, it's cheating, but in love and war anything goes). If you need relatives or friends to enhance your stories of homeopathy gone wrong (make them really good, be creative), I have "a friend of a cousin" that's perfect for the role. The idea is to use this ruse to lead them to a place where real evidence exists.

Finally, be optimistic. You've been planting seeds of doubt. Some will bud, flower, and reproduce. The processs is slow and difficult, but rewarding.
 
Last edited:
As a "skeptic" of paranormal claims (although perhaps I would be better described as "zetetic", as Marcello Truzzi described himself, as the term "skeptic" has been misused by many) I like to picture my role as something of a facilitator, and not as an adversary of alternate beliefs. As Goethe put it, "the eye sees what the eye brings means of seeing"; one is acting in a role of delivering the mechanisms of an alternate perspective, much as one might act as a mediator between two opposing views. I maintain the best way of approaching those with scientifically improbable beliefs is merely to show them the way of science, much as a believer might show one who does not believe the nature of their beliefs. I must disagree strongly with the post above by Empeake that deception is a satisfactory manner of inducing the catharsis of insight towards "debunking" irrational beliefs - the deluded have already been deceived, and self-deceived, and more deception can be but an additional nail in the coffin of their intellectual indepedence. Proofs of logical fallacy, and of refutation, are far better received by people upon their own recognisance, and I strive to be a steward of logic, a gardener in the field of ideas - never an arrogant adversary who merely chooses to oppose on disagreement. Thus I maintain the impetus that my amateur work is worthwhile, and that, I believe, is the best reward one can have in offering a light forward to the misconceived mindsets of the masses.

Nicholas Turnbull
 
This letter from the latest Swift newsletter depressed me a bit -- it's a clear picture of what we are up against.

But to try to convince people like that is a bit like trying to dig a hole in water. The way to truly effect change is through education of people who are not yet in either camp.
 
Last year a friend was trying to sell her house and was frantic because she was running out of time. So she asked me where she could get a St. Joeseph statue to bury in her yard and I said downtown at that Catholic store, probably. Since she had to work, I got one for her. She sold her house 2 weeks later.
When she told people that Jeff, the atheist, bought it for her, I lied and said I put a SATAN symbol on it, that's why it worked. (Because SATAN is the god of real estate agents)
So being a skeptic doesn't get me down - f**king with their heads can be uplifting.
 
Regnad Kcin said:
Well, that's 'cause you're talking about a rabbit forum.
Click to expand...
Be vewy vewy quite, we're hunting homeopathic wabbits...



AWPrime said:
No, but being a member of the human species does.
Click to expand...

lister said:
It's the fact that being a sceptic forces me to see that the vast majority of people are just so damn stupid and shortsighted. This feeling overwhelmes me sometimes and I despair of the human race.
Click to expand...
I suspect everyone thinks that.

Piggy said:
If sensible people keep silent in our day-to-day interactions, we allow the fundamentalist memes to take hold and spread.
Click to expand...
Edward Burke said:
When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle
Click to expand...

Trans-morgified+ into "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" by somebody - See
http://www.tartarus.org/martin/essays/burkequote.html and http://www.tartarus.org/martin/essays/burkequote2.html.*



* Goggle-stumbling

+ Blame Calvin
 
Being a skeptic doesn't get me down. Other people having no skepticism gets me down. I guess I just prefer to wish that the vogon had never been born.

Steven
 
Nahhhh being a skeptic never get's me down...you know what get's me down though?

That farce of a radio program Coast to Coast Am. UGH...if that isn't just a huge Paranormal Fan love in I don't know what is. The other night was some Best Of show...and Noory took calls from people telling their Psychic stories of how they predicted things that came true,tarot card readings that came to pass blah blah blah yada yada yada.........and Noory just Gee Whizzed everything..

"How long have you been able to read minds?"

"Wow,you're quite possibly the best tarot card reader ever"

"When did this Precognition power of yours manifest itself?"

He treats it as though it's all foregone conclusion.Never once does he ask anything even remotely resembling a hardball question of anyone on the show.

Now you just know that their are young soft skulled humanoids out there who buy into Paranormalness based strictly on C2C and Noory's Gee Whiz that's cool style.

Very frustrating.

On the other hand....the show usually makes me laugh my arse off so it's not a total loss huh?
 
Being a skeptic doesnt get me down. Woo is prevalent throughout society and critical thinking isnt, so much woo is taken at face value by otherwise smart people who havent looked into it.

Since I started lurking here I've learned many common or garden woo manifestations, and found the resources to confront them effectively.

I have been able to to open the eyes of various friends and coworkers the tricks of psychics and mediums. This last week my boss told me about a (UK) channel 4 documentary he'd seen questioning whether a plane had really hit the Pentagon on September 11 2001. It had made an impression on him, and he'd then read a book that seemed to cast doubt on the history of 9/11 as well.

Because of skeptical sites like this, I was able to discuss conspiracy theories generally and give examples of the sort of claims that are made about the Pentagon and the problems of evidence they have. I asked him for the book he read, which he will try to find. In the meantime I was able to point him to this site and 911myths.com.

When he had looked at 911myths he said:"OK, that site makes me feel really lazy."

That was all it took to turn a guy away from the dark side, and make him more wary of wooish claims in the mainstream media. We are outnumbered for the moment but we have the advantage of not having to prosetelyze or indoctrinate. All we have to do is educate; calmly, respectfully and rationally.
 
Nicholas Turnbull said:
I maintain the best way of approaching those with scientifically improbable beliefs is merely to show them the way of science, much as a believer might show one who does not believe the nature of their beliefs.
Click to expand...
But there's a problem with this approach in areas of the country where science is viewed as a false religion and/or a liberal conspiracy. Appealing to science will get you quickly shut out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom