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Does being a sceptic ever get you down?

Just to chime in with my 2-cents worth. I'm an atheistic druid. I know, an odd mix. But I frequent some of the druid and neo-pagan forums. Needless to say there is alot of woo there. But, I was pleasantly surprised to find that there were others there that shared my atheism. Usually I simply hold my nose for the milder woo so that I can discuss history and philosophy. But when it gets into easily demonstrated falsehoods or misunderstandings, then I will grill the person and get them to explain their position. I find that usually just getting them to explain what they mean exposes the shear stupidity involved. I usually don't change their minds since they are "true believers" in whatever woo we're discussing, but once they realize that their belief system might come crumbling down if they poke at it any more,they crawl back home until the next bruhaha.
 
Lister, we all experience what you do at various times. Get accused of being negative, closed minded, and lots of other things. It can get you down at times. So often we are the lone voice of reason and rational thought in the discussion. So often we are the only ones asking questions or seeking proof and we end up with lots of people attacking us for thinking and seeking truth.

Everyone has to decide just how far they go to challenge the woo. Some revel in it and at the other end of the spectrum their are those who are very uncomfortable facing challenges. And lots and lots of shades between the two.

I am with everyone else in saying, yes, what you do is useful at that forum, even if you only hear from those in strong support of the woo. It is likely there are plenty of fence sitters, people who don't believe but are afraid to challenge someone, or just don't think they can put a strong argument and stay silent.

So, do as you have and when the woos make you nuts, come here and vent but don't stop. Take breaks from it when it is too much for you.

Personally, I am living for the day when the fairy tale "The Emperor's New Clothes" comes true for at least one bit of woo and face it, without skeptics, that is not going to happen ;)
 
Piggy: I live in central North Carolina. Living amidst universities, pharmaceutical , and biotechnical companies, I foget that a few hours west there are people who handle snakes in church services. It's frightening at times, as well as disheartening, particularly as this superstition is spreading throughout the entire nation. There are some nutters you just can't deal with. I don't let it get me down, though. I think of myself as an activist and carry on. And in the situation with the child and the nutter granny, perhaps you could call the Child Protective Services in your state and leave an anonymous tip.
 
Oh, goodness, yes, I get down about being a skeptic all the time. And I'm not talking dancing, here. However, I didn't become a skeptic to become happy, I did it because it seemed the best way to determine what and how some things are true, and some aren't. I don't think happiness really enters into the equation for the little mental scaffolding skepticism builds for itself - it's a separate pursuit entirely.

The reason it gets me, in particular, down, is because it means I've had to burn a few bridges behind me in the past even as I set up the charges for others in order to continue living an honest life. I suppose that's likely to be a problem for both outspoken and closet skeptics. The outspoken ones will alienate the many people whose beliefs skepticism must dismiss, and the closet ones will end up little bundles of anxiety from maintaining the pretense of non-skepticism in order to keep up their personal relations.

(for the record, Dr. James Dobson-fan Roman Catholic father, Roman Catholic woo-loving mother, new-agish sister, anti-"Big Pharma" brother, born-again Evangelical aunt. So many beliefs to attack at the family barbecues, there's hardly time too coo and whimper at the latest additions to the family, be they pets or babies)

However, whatever disheartening circumstances anyone encounters, there's a little comfort to be derived from the idea that we're at least *attempting* to be a bit more honest with skepticism, right?
 
No, being a sceptic never gets me down, I love being a sceptic. What sometimes does get me down is the fact that there are not more sceptics.
 
I know what you all feel...I was recently called 'closed minded' for doubting the veracity of David Icke's 'lizard people' claims?????
 
You often have more allies than you think.

But when she started advising one of my friends at the party not to microwave his food, I asked a few "innocent" questions about what was theory behind this claim, was there any evidence to support it, etc. (I wasn't 100% sure this was nonsense anyway, so I wasn't going to go overboard in challenging it.) Of course, all she had was "I don't know" and "I think I read something on the internet about it," and she dropped the subject.

Oh, it's because microwaving the food makes the salt inorganic (!). Or, at least, so I have been informed by a chap who did his PhD Computer Science somewheer in California (UCLA, I think). Of course, we couldn't get any reliable explanation hw the sodium chloride was organic in the first place.
 
I didn't become a skeptic, it just kinda came over me. :) It doesn't get me down, on the whole. I find belief in the woowoo depressing in its false promises and doomed hopes, and being free from that is truly liberating.

On the flip side, seeing some people trapped in that belief system can be frustrating and sometimes disheartening. So in that respect, yes, being a skeptic and being able to see clearly through the woo also shows you the regrettable stupidity of people. Most times it's just funny, sometimes amusing and sometimes it's sad.
 
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I believe Shermer covers this in the final chapters of Why People Believe Weird Things, which may be where you read it, too. I don't have my copy handy, so I can't give you the numbers on homeopathy.

I think it may have been the follow up book How We Believe, it does more of a breakdown by different demographics.
 
We could sneak in one at a time... Being all "hey man, I've got this, I mean, rabbit, I mean, y'know, like, it's a bit thin..."

Maybe not.
Damn that CT thread.
 
I always get down about being a Skeptic but that's ok because I'm a Goth. I need inspiration!

Maybe not. Being a Skeptic doesn't get me down at all but I am an employed scientist so I can sit in my lab and look at the real tools to examine the real world.

Unfortunately, there are people very close to me who have woo-woo tendecies. I choose to avoid a direct questioning/confrontation regarding their beliefs. I'll usually approach things from an "angle" if I have to. I'll usually use their terminology (i.e. "I believe this..." or "I feel that..."). If I'm questioned further, I'll bring out the big guns -- you know facts. I have found if you say "I know" people automatically believe you're some elitist out to show how stupid they are -- even if they are telling you nonsense in a field in which you are an expert. However, my woo-woo friends really don't ask me stuff because they already know I'm a scientist and I have a tendency to state my mind.
 
Coping with woos

I work in Newark, which is an extremely fundamentalist city, despite being in New Jersey (a blue state) and home to five universities and the nation's largest public health university. Vast tracts of Newark land are off the tax rolls because they're owned by churches of every stripe and size, most of which are primarily money-making operations for their pastors...they all run real estate development companies. They thread the needle of avoiding taxes while making money.

The membership, as a result, takes the Bible not as a series of allegories about human history and a source of useful moral lessons, but as a literal and minute-by-minute depiction of the history of the world. I have heard colleagues and superiors tell me that removing prayer from schools has led to America's decline, that we live in the "End Times," that the devil controls the weather, and so on. At the same time, the slavishly follow horoscopes, even though astrology is directly opposed to Jewish and Christian tradition -- false gods and pagan idols. My colleagues openly denounce evolution as a "mere theory," and one of them is proud that her father taught her to skeptically question evolution as it was taught in her high school.

The height of this was the woman who gasped in horror when I mentioned that Wallis loved "Harry Potter." How can I let her read such Satanic material, the woman gasped. Witches and warlocks...it was un-Christian! I had a hard time keeping a straight face.

I have to put up with this intense religiosity and its associated lunacy by mostly hoping that the phone will ring to interrupt the tirade. I also remind myself that this is proof of what happens, as my pal Anne says, if you "insist on going around believing in God."

But mostly, I avoid debating them. It's a no-win situation. I used to argue with them, and now realize it's pointless. They are what they are. The God they worship apparently created them that way, which shows He has a sense of humor, I guess.

What I don't let them do is take over my children's education...I won't let them teach creation as a genuine theory in our public schools. And while Wallis was baptized, she hasn't gone to First Communion or any of that stuff, to the annoyance of some of my colleagues. I point out to them that I don't want her burdened for life with guilt and shame unnecessarily, and believing that the only way to get rid of it is to confess "crimes" and give all your money to the pastor.

Then I go home...and I leave the idiots at work.

Now as for the woos on the web...I have also had to cope with Holocaust deniers, who I think are worse, because of their vicious anti-Semitism and worship of Hitler. They are more dangerous, because when confronted and exposed, they lash out by attacking and harassing their interlocutors, in some cases sending spurious complaints to authorities, naming their nemesis as a child-beater. Some neo-Nazis send e-mails with forged headers to make their opponent seem to be threatening the life of the president, or subscribe their opponent to a variety of objectionable websites. One woman found herself posted as a fan of bestiality and anal sex seeking companionship...and got a lot of horrid phone calls.

So I avoid arguing with those folks completely. If they send a note to me directly about my website, I answer them politely and refuse the debate challenge. I have a column about one such moron on my page. They get irritated that I won't play.

That's my best advice...don't get into it. It'll only make you feel worse. And don't take it home with you.
 
So how do I hire the Ninja Wave A-Team? I have my own forum I frequent that's in some need of woo-busting. I'm just about holding my own at the moment, but I might need the cavalry later on..
 
Shall we do a 'JREF Ninja Wave' on the rabbit forum? :D
Heh! It's tempting, but a further complication is that I know the founder of this forum personally and I have many friends on there. I would not want to cause problems for them just to make me feel better.

Actually, I have to admit that this is one of the main things that keeps me polite. If I was just some anonymous poster then I suspect I would let rip a bit more freely.

After reading all your replies I guess I misworded the thread title a little. It's not being a sceptic that gets me down. It's the fact that being a sceptic forces me to see that the vast majority of people are just so damn stupid and shortsighted. This feeling overwhelmes me sometimes and I despair of the human race.

Actually it's strange because now I can think back even to my childhood where I realised that I seemed to be the only one who could "step back" from myself and examine my own thinking objectively, whereas most people seem stuck in their own heads so to speak. It frustrated me even then although I did not have the language to put it into words.
 

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