Ed Do you like your cheese?

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Almost, and you got all the important parts right.

"Coon" was the name of the guy who invented a cheesmaking process, but he didn't actually start the company that made the cheese.

Thanks for the clarification.

Ah, I do remember seeing references to the cooning process in my quick skim of the Wikipedia article.

Funny, I've never heard of cooning, Mr. Coon, or Coon cheese, and I'm originally from WI and now live in CA. You'd think it would have come up at some point, even though they're not local.

 

[MoeFaux]

It isn't an analogy. It's an actual example. No, Mr. Coon should not be concerned that his name offends people. He might choose to change it just because it's a burden on him, but he should not feel obligated to do so. If there are any people named Mr. ******, they shouldn't be concerned either.

There are a handful of people in America named Hitler. Most changed their name because they didn't like dealing with the consequences, but their name is not inherently offensive. They got it from their ancestors. A few kept it, and while "Hitler Plumbing and Heating" might not be great marketing, people should not be offended by it. It just has negative associations that most would prefer not to deal with. "Hitler" is not a racist name. "Coon" is not a racist name. They are family names.

Why isn't a word just a word? Because some words, specifically, were used in violence, and were the last word a person might have heard before they were murdered in a hate crime.

 

[bobdroege7]

Why should we (Or corporations invested in dairy trademarks) be careful of? What was lost in this case? Where might this slippery slope end?

I thought that would be obvious, we don't want people to use the word Canadian when they mean ******.

 

[Elagabalus]

... They are family names.

Indeed, probably an abbreviation/bastardization from Dekoenig or some such. They could write "made with DeKoon process" under the new brand name. That should go over well.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Not sure I get the point of this.

There's a brand of cheese called "Coon cheese" that was started by a guy with a surname of Coon. And because that word can also be used as a racist slur, people want the name of the cheese to be changed?

Did I get that right?

No

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

No

I'm pretty close though:

COON is the Australian trademark of a cheddar cheese produced by the Warrnambool Cheese and Butter company (WCB). It was first launched in 1935 by Fred Walker.[1] Coon cheese is named after its American creator, Edward William Coon (1871–1934) of Philadelphia, who patented a method, subsequently known as the Cooning process, for fast maturation of cheese via high temperature and humidity.

Or do you disagree with this part:

Because that word can also be used as a racist slur, people want the name of the cheese to be changed?

 

[Red Baron Farms]

Well now! There is your solution then. Stop calling it Coon cheese and start calling it Cooning cheese.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Well now! There is your solution then. Stop calling it Coon cheese and start calling it Cooning cheese.

No one gives a damn about the process used to produce a supermarket cheddar that is indistinguishable from any other in the dairy aisle. Not a unique marketing proposition unless the target market is racists.

 

[MoeFaux]

Did you know the actress Olivia Wilde changed her name? It was originally Olivia Cockburn.


It's not applicable to the argument, really. But just wanted to point out how maybe changing a name isn't the worst idea. Maybe she didn't want to be associated with the word 'cockburn,' who's to say why. Sure, it could be just because she went into acting (although, she changed her name in high school). But it was a proud family name. Both parents are journalists, so the name was out there. Could it be that she personally just didn't want that to be her name anymore? That she just couldn't bear to hear 'cockburn' anymore?

She says she changed it in homage to Oscar Wilde. Should she have held on to her heritage, and kept her longheld family name? WHO THE HELL CARES, IT'S NOT A RACIAL EPITHET.

No big deal. Change the name.

 

[Thermal]

Behind on the thread, but is the gist here that one guy, a Dr Hagan, has been fighting to get the name changed for 21 years, through different owners...and no one else anywhere in the passing years has complained or commented on this evidently highly offensive cheese name? No boycotts or online shame campaign or anything?

 

[arthwollipot]

Well, it's consistent.

I can't say it's a wrong answer. It's not one of those things that there's a definitive right or wrong answer. All I can say is that if someone found my name offensive, I wouldn't change it for their benefit. If I got tired of reactions from people, I might give up the fight and just change it to save myself some trouble, kind of the way that some companies might change their names due to marketing considerations, but I wouldn't feel obligated to do so. I also wouldn't expect anyone else to do so, or expect them to refrain from using such a name to identify their products or business. Indeed, if someone tried to tell me that my name offended them, I would be offended.

There's a difference between one person telling you that your name offends them, and your name being a racial slur that insults millions.

Did you know the actress Olivia Wilde changed her name? It was originally Olivia Cockburn.


It's not applicable to the argument, really. But just wanted to point out how maybe changing a name isn't the worst idea. Maybe she didn't want to be associated with the word 'cockburn,' who's to say why. Sure, it could be just because she went into acting (although, she changed her name in high school). But it was a proud family name. Both parents are journalists, so the name was out there. Could it be that she personally just didn't want that to be her name anymore? That she just couldn't bear to hear 'cockburn' anymore?

She says she changed it in homage to Oscar Wilde. Should she have held on to her heritage, and kept her longheld family name? WHO THE HELL CARES, IT'S NOT A RACIAL EPITHET.

No big deal. Change the name.

I've always thought that Arnold Schwarzenegger should have changed his name. Maybe to something more elegant and romantic. Like... Lance Schwarzenegger.

 

[arthwollipot]

Behind on the thread, but is the gist here that one guy, a Dr Hagan, has been fighting to get the name changed for 21 years, through different owners...and no one else anywhere in the passing years has complained or commented on this evidently highly offensive cheese name? No boycotts or online shame campaign or anything?

I think it's pretty safe to say that current events have influenced the outcome.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Behind on the thread, but is the gist here that one guy, a Dr Hagan, has been fighting to get the name changed for 21 years, through different owners...and no one else anywhere in the passing years has complained or commented on this evidently highly offensive cheese name? No boycotts or online shame campaign or anything?

I would recommend that if Doctor Hagan wants to do good in the world, he finds a better way to spend his time. Of all the causes to get behind in the world, renaming a cheese seems just about the dumbest.

 

[Thermal]

I think it's pretty safe to say that current events have influenced the outcome.

Agreed. Nobody save the good Doctor seems to have given a **** till the last month. Like, ever. Now, even the very sight of the word in a thread title is horrific. Signs o' the times.

 

[Sideroxylon]

I would recommend that if Doctor Hagan wants to do good in the world, he finds a better way to spend his time. Of all the causes to get behind in the world, renaming a cheese seems just about the dumbest.

Getting outraged that a boring supermarket cheddar with a racial slur is being renamed is dumb. It is this kind of stupidity that culture wars outrage petrol thrower Murdoch and old alcoholic talkback radio hosts love to exploit for dollars. Getting enraged by that **** is dumb but also nasty.

 

[Sideroxylon]

Agreed. Nobody save the good Doctor seems to have given a **** till the last month. Like, ever. Now, even the very sight of the word in a thread title is horrific. Signs o' the times.

Not true.

 

[Thermal]

Not true.

Hm?

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Getting outraged that a boring supermarket cheddar with a racial slur is being renamed is dumb. It is this kind of stupidity that culture wars outrage petrol thrower Murdoch and old alcoholic talkback radio hosts love to exploit for dollars. Getting enraged by that **** is dumb but also nasty.

Who is getting outraged that a cheese is changing its name? (If it is even changing its name)

I just meant that it's beyond stupid to take that up as one's cause.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Agreed. Nobody save the good Doctor seems to have given a **** till the last month.

No-one does give a ****, including the good Doctor Hagan.

 

[angrysoba]

I would recommend that if Doctor Hagan wants to do good in the world, he finds a better way to spend his time. Of all the causes to get behind in the world, renaming a cheese seems just about the dumbest.

Variations of this argument have been made a number of times in this thread and elsewhere, and they often come up whenever anyone finds something worth devoting their time to.

But really, are you as strictly utilitarian about everything in life? This thing that person X is doing isn't worthwhile, do something else!

I mean, how many threads and posts on this very forum are actually worth the effort we put into it? I mean, if we want to change people's minds, or promote critical thinking, shouldn't we be doing something else?

It seems to me that this is basically an informal fallacy that I don't know the name for, the "Do Something Better With Your Time Fallacy". It isn't related to the argument itself, only that the effort of making it isn't worth it.