Ed Do you like your cheese?

[Belz...]

I don't need to make arguments against your outdated rubbish.

Outdated? What are you talking about?

Do you think for one second that I would chastise another poster for saying something that I think is offensive to you? No. I'd let you tell that poster yourself.

The issue is that people like you are DECIDING for black people what they should be offended by. It's just another form of the same racism that's existed in the US since even before the revolution.

Not for one minute do I think you are simply ignorant.

Go ahead and say it clearly, then. What am I? Come on. You're dying to say it.

 

[The Greater Fool]

White people or black people?

That's kind of important, because otherwise white people are just assuming that black people _should_ be offended by the brand name.

I am white. I wouldn't by the product because I find the name offensive. My assumption is my spouse would dislike and/or be offended.

My spouse is black. I just asked if she would like me to buy that product. The look I got was one that said I was in danger of spousal wrath while she responded "No."

"Why not?"

"What's wrong with you? The name."


I wonder if this satisfies you?

 

[SpitfireIX]

As, no doubt, the many, many white people called Black.....

I'm not sure if this is still the case, but several years ago I read that the majority of Americans named Black are white, and the majority of Americans named White are black.

 

[Belz...]

I wonder if this satisfies you?

The plural of anecdote is not evidence.

I'm looking for something more general and statistical. I thought that was obvious.

 

[SpitfireIX]

I saw it in a discussion about this name-change in another place online.





Anyone else here think "Coon is a racist name" is like general vernacular in Australia?

Mr Nay is from the UK and he immediately recoiled when he first saw it in the supermarket.

I've known since I was a kid that the name is just wrong, like Golliwogs and the N word. Everybody seems to know.

So how do you feel about people whose last name is Coon? Or a homophone such as Kuhn? Should they change their names because someone might be offended, especially if they only overheard a snippet of a conversation where it came up? As I mentioned in FC, I'm named (indirectly) for Robert E. Lee, and it has crossed my mind that I should consider changing it, but I've pretty well made up my mind that I'm not going to.

 

[The Greater Fool]

The plural of anecdote is not evidence.

I'm looking for something more general and statistical. I thought that was obvious.

It wasn't, since you didn't seem discount previous anecdotes. Then again, I haven't made a study of your posts in this thread.

I doubt there are actual statistics on racial differences of perception of 'coon cheese.' It is a nonsensical requirement.

I have absolutely no doubt that if I asked my spouse's family and friends the same question, virtually every person would respond similarly. No doubt some would think I was working at starting a fight.

I have absolutely no doubt that if I asked my side of the family there would be similar angst.

Distant relatives, on discovering the product name, would relish the prospect of using it over much while claiming no racist intent, similar to some in this thread. When last I saw them was at my grandmothers' funeral 25 years ago, where they loudly whispered similar non-racist comments about my spouse and family.

While I generally think you are thoughtful, in this case you are tremendously off base trying to be 'reasonable.' You are far from it.

 

[SpitfireIX]

I'm sure if the founder had been a German immigrant who'd anglosised his family's name from Kuntz they'd have changed it already.

Many years ago in Fort Wayne we had long-serving and well-respected mayor named Harry Baals^WP, whose name was pronounced like "hairy balls." There was a minor controversy a while back because there was a movement to name the new city hall after him, but that was nixed by the city government, for obvious reasons. Today his descendants still use the same spelling, but they pronounce their name like "bales."

 

[SpitfireIX]

If the founder of your product was named Hitler, even if not related to Adolf, it would be best to change your product’s name from “Hitler’s Heavenly Cheese Bits” to something else.

Hitler has some collateral descendants living in the US. They changed their family name shortly after the war.

 

[Belz...]

I doubt there are actual statistics on racial differences of perception of 'coon cheese.' It is a nonsensical requirement.

It's not nonsensical. We can argue about it until the cows come home, but a bunch of white people being offended on behalf of black people doesn't really speak to me. Remember the Redskins nonsense? Turns out most NAs didn't care about it.

I have absolutely no doubt that if I asked my spouse's family and friends the same question, virtually every person would respond similarly. No doubt some would think I was working at starting a fight.

And?

While I generally think you are thoughtful, in this case you are tremendously off base trying to be 'reasonable.'

I'm not "trying" anything. Your perspective is not inevitable.

 

[pgwenthold]

It's not nonsensical. We can argue about it until the cows come home, but a bunch of white people being offended on behalf of black people .

I already told you above, I am not offended on behalf of anyone.

I am offended on behalf of myself.

Stop with this mischaracterization.

 

[Belz...]

I already told you above, I am not offended on behalf of anyone.

I am offended on behalf of myself.

Stop with this mischaracterization.

Where exactly did I mention you? You speak of mischaracterisation but I wasn't even talking to you, or about you.

Also, why are you offended by the brand name, exactly? If it's really on your own behalf, how is it offending you specifically?

 

[Bob001]

The brand is named after its founder, Edward Coon, a man who's name has Scottish connections that in no way is a slur on POC. It is probably derived from McCune, McCowan or McCone.
....

According to this, the company was founded by Fred Walker, an Australian businessman who created Vegemite. The cheese is made by a process invented by the American Edward Coon, who apparently operated dairies but didn't sell cheese under that name. So the Australian Coon brand was not created by anybody named Coon, the name has no Australian connection, and the company has been through several changes of ownership, including getting sold by Kraft.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coon_cheese

Is Coon really the only name they can use for cheddar cheese in Australia? Or is it maybe smart for a marketer not to make consumers mad?

 

[Tony99]

It's not nonsensical. We can argue about it until the cows come home, but a bunch of white people being offended on behalf of black people doesn't really speak to me. Remember the Redskins nonsense? Turns out most NAs didn't care about it.

I get your argument. And what you're stating I often see it expressed in groups on the ends of political spectrum (left and right) and it reeks of imperialism and paternalism.

I do happen to think this particular case is just a company wanting to clean-up their own back yard BEFORE the neighbors come to them with a complaint.

 

[Belz...]

I get your argument. And what you're stating I often see it expressed in groups on the ends of political spectrum (left and right) and it reeks of imperialism and paternalism.

Could you clarify what the blazes either imperialism or paternalism have to do with being offended by proxy?

I do happen to think this particular case is just a company wanting to clean-up their own back yard BEFORE the neighbors come to them with a complaint.

Quite possibly.

 

[Tony99]

Could you clarify what the blazes either imperialism or paternalism have to do with being offended by proxy?

Will try to give it a go...
The unchosen proxy often incorrectly assumes that a group has no agency, education, or power to speak up for themselves or to understand the "correct" way to go about things so they will step up and do it for them.

What do the kids call it?..."white knighting"

 

[lionking]

People here grew up with Coon Cheese. There’s a packet in our refrigerator. I know I don’t purchase it thinking that I’m offending anyone. Australians are (or at least have been) pretty laid back about things like this and, before the name change, I haven’t noticed any call to change it. It’s just a product name so no big deal.

There are plenty of things that need to be done to improve outcomes for many indigenous people, but I doubt that too many would put a 100 year old product name in the top 100.

I think the name change is stupid and will do nothing at all of material benefit. Tokenism is not what the majority of indigenous people want. I won’t be searching out the renamed cheese (it isn’t even that good, we have it for the grand children, who like it).

 

[Belz...]

Will try to give it a go...
The unchosen proxy often incorrectly assumes that a group has no agency, education, or power to speak up for themselves or to understand the "correct" way to go about things so they will step up and do it for them.

What do the kids call it?..."white knighting"

Isn't that what I'm describing others doing, rather than what I'm doing?

 

[Sideroxylon]

Haven’t bought it because I was uncomfortable with the name.

 

[Sideroxylon]

People here grew up with Coon Cheese. There’s a packet in our refrigerator. I know I don’t purchase it thinking that I’m offending anyone. Australians are (or at least have been) pretty laid back about things like this and, before the name change, I haven’t noticed any call to change it. It’s just a product name so no big deal.

There are plenty of things that need to be done to improve outcomes for many indigenous people, but I doubt that too many would put a 100 year old product name in the top 100.

I think the name change is stupid and will do nothing at all of material benefit. Tokenism is not what the majority of indigenous people want. I won’t be searching out the renamed cheese (it isn’t even that good, we have it for the grand children, who like it).

I grew up with cheese and the racist name for aborigines. Good times. Wont someone think of the grand children though. The white ones obviously.

 

[Belz...]

Won't someone think of the strawmen?