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Do We Have a Soul?

Iacchus said:
Here are a couple of interesting dreams in case you're interested (#'s 11-19) ... Perhaps you can explain to me why they seemed so real?
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Aside from the Marquis's excellent answer, you could also turn to the large literature within the scientific community on the physiology of dreaming. Yes, this literature is very different from the sources in your library (at least, those you have listed here), especially in that they are scientific. I am certain you will not read any of it (please, please prove me wrong), but you should be aware that dreaming, while still a fertile area for research, is not nearly the dark continent you suppose that it is.

If you are seriously interested in dreams, there is a serious literature on them. If, on the other hand, you merely wish to confirm your preconceived notions of dreaming (like that ludicrous notion of dreams as "receiving signals" from some other existence), please re-adjust your blinders and proceed as you were.
 
Mercutio said:
Aside from the Marquis's excellent answer, you could also turn to the large literature within the scientific community on the physiology of dreaming. Yes, this literature is very different from the sources in your library (at least, those you have listed here), especially in that they are scientific. I am certain you will not read any of it (please, please prove me wrong), but you should be aware that dreaming, while still a fertile area for research, is not nearly the dark continent you suppose that it is.

If you are seriously interested in dreams, there is a serious literature on them. If, on the other hand, you merely wish to confirm your preconceived notions of dreaming (like that ludicrous notion of dreams as "receiving signals" from some other existence), please re-adjust your blinders and proceed as you were.
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Did you know that Swedenborg was a well respected Scientist in his own field, before he turned to the study of dreams?
 
zaayrdragon said:
Anyway, it was a nice dream. I wonder what it means?
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Hey, did I tell you my dream about Uncle Adolf?

It had been a long drive and I had parked my pickup truck along the coast of the sea and began to take a nap. And I found myself flying up in the mountains over these green fields and wondering what it was about.

And I began to feel a sense of superiority and pride well up over the horizon. And lo and behold here was Uncle Adolf, welcoming me into his parlor, I was but a lad, as he began to cajole with me, and persuade me into thinking how important it was to join the Nazi party. Indeed, I was a prime candidate in his eyes.

This went on for what seemed to be an hour, with him giving me the whole spiel on the glory of the party, until finally I said, "Oh, well alright!" just to get him to stop. At which point he turned into a snappy black wiry poodle dog, quivering in anticipation as I began to pet it. Then all of a sudden I was wide awake in the front of my pickup truck, saying, "Whoa, what the heck was that all about!"
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Or, how about my dream about the Indian Tapestry, that I refer to in chapter 9 of my book? ... a very revelatory chapter, if you wish to see how all this "synchronicity" stacks up?

3 A couple of nights later I had a very unusual dream. And like my experience in chapter 5, I became fully conscious and, was in the spirit. I awoke to find myself sitting in a chair, upholstered a velvety green color (more of a chartreuse), sitting out in front of a secondhand store or trading post, right out next to the street. This is a store that really exists (it did at the time I wrote this), and it's located on Highway 199 North, as you head into Grants Pass, Oregon, just after crossing the bridge.


4 I found myself sitting in this chair and, there was a rolled-up tapestry—I didn't know what of—sitting on my lap. I then realized I had business with the owner inside and proceeded to go in. When I met the owner I spoke to him; and, when he spoke to me, it was in such a way that the whole shop reverberated, in conjunction with each word he spoke. And I marveled, for everything was directly correspondent or, in the order of who he was. Such was the harmony between himself and those things that revolved around him.

5 I told him I had a tapestry for him to see, that I didn't know what of, to see what he would be willing to pay me. While in my mind I thought I could get five dollars, and sensed this would be his price; we seemed to read each other's thoughts. But as I unrolled it we were both dumbfounded. It was the picture of an Indian chief, in full battle regalia—and it was beautiful! And we both marveled! I started getting greedy at this point, thinking surely it was worth ten dollars (or more), which I then struggled to say. (I don't like to dicker.) But he said he could only afford five dollars and we couldn't come to an agreement. I then awoke from my dream and began to marvel about what it all meant.
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Tricky said:
The irony here is that Iacchus probably doesn't even realize what he just said.
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Does this in any way imply that Swedenborg was mad? No. It's sad you that you folks wouldn't consider that he should apply the same seriousness and discipline of mind as he did with his previous study.
 
Tricky said:
The irony here is that Iacchus probably doesn't even realize what he just said.
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:roll:

Evidence would support your hypothesis, good sir Tricky.

Iachster, kindly take a look at ol' Borg's contemporaries in science. There are two types: those whose groundbreaking contributions have become the bedrock of modern science, and those who are too obscure for Trivial Pursuits. As a scientist, Borg is squarely in the latter category. The scientific study of dreams has found no use at all for his notions. As you said, and as Tricky underlines, when he started writing about dreams, he left science behind him. He is not the first, nor the last, to do that, but to suggest that his scientific credentials apply to his dream fantasies is pure argument by authority. Borg is, in no uncertain terms, completely useless if you are trying to understand dreams.
 
Here's an excerpt from a page called Seizures of a Spirit-Seer? which discusses the nature of Swedenborg's "sanity" if you're interested ...

There is an old joke that is germane to any discussion of spiritual revelation:

Prayer is when you talk to God. But when He answers, it's called schizophrenia.

Old jokes are good jokes, because within them is often some subtle cultural or ideological bias, the absurdity of which becomes glaringly apparent in the light of day. In the question of Emanuel Swedenborg's mental status, a certain rationalistic bias can be seen peeking through several psychological studies, published over many years, purporting to diagnose the "Swedish Seer" with a variety of disorders.1 The necessity, for one who subscribes to this bias, is to explain the comprehensive, other-worldly nature of Swedenborg's thirty-volume theological corpus in terms suitable for consumption in a modern (or now post-modern) age. Since all revelation, in this materialistic mind-set, is "schizophrenia," then schizophrenia it must be. But there are questions here, begging to be asked, about how this definition came to be so universally accepted, and who decides such things.
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His "mental status" is utterly irrelevant. It is not the quality of his mind, but the quality of his science that matters here. And it is the latter that is inadequate. When he wrote about dreams, he did not do so as a scientist, and he did not subject his writings to the sort of self-correcting critical analysis that is the hallmark of science. The moment his work is subjected to such analysis, it falls to pieces. He had some dreams. The fact that he had these dreams so long ago does not give them any more relevance than any others. Frankly, I prefer the dream about Laetitia Costa and a jar of honey, myself.
 
Mercutio said:
His "mental status" is utterly irrelevant. It is not the quality of his mind, but the quality of his science that matters here. And it is the latter that is inadequate. When he wrote about dreams, he did not do so as a scientist, and he did not subject his writings to the sort of self-correcting critical analysis that is the hallmark of science. The moment his work is subjected to such analysis, it falls to pieces. He had some dreams. The fact that he had these dreams so long ago does not give them any more relevance than any others. Frankly, I prefer the dream about Laetitia Costa and a jar of honey, myself.
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Well it wasn't just his dreams that he wrote about, because much of what he experienced occurred while he was in his body and wide awake ... albeit there were times I believe where he was carried off into distant realms and whatnot. By the way, without a "mental status" of any sort (the fact that we are conscious and aware of anything), what would there be to report? So yes, mental status has everything to do with it.
 
Mercutio said:
If you insist. Frankly, though, this hurts rather than helps his case.
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In the eyes of a persistent materialist, no doubt. Of course this is the whole point to the argument though, whether or not materialism is all that there is. So, to the degree that you confirm yourself in materialism, you have no choice but to conclude that he was a nutcase. There can be no other alternative. Which is sad, because he may in fact be telling the truth. Indeed, materialism is just as much a process of belief, as idealism is.
 
Iacchus said:
In the eyes of a persistent materialist, no doubt. Of course this is the whole point to the argument though, whether or not materialism is all that there is. So, to the degree that you confirm yourself in materialism, you have no choice but to conclude that he was a nutcase. There can be no other alternative. Which is sad, because he may in fact be telling the truth. Indeed, materialism is just as much a process of belief, as idealism is.
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And Borg is internally inconsistent under either system. Like I said, his mental state is irrelevant, but if you wish to say both that it is relevant and that the materialist system is wrong for saying it is relevant, be my guest. It is a neat trick, playing the martyr card to your own assumptions.
 
Mercutio said:
And Borg is internally inconsistent under either system. Like I said, his mental state is irrelevant, but if you wish to say both that it is relevant and that the materialist system is wrong for saying it is relevant, be my guest. It is a neat trick, playing the martyr card to your own assumptions.
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Martyr? :con2: If you persist. However, are you suggesting that one's mental state does not come into question when they begin to hallucinate (have visions) and hear voices?
 
Okay, how does one's mental state comes into question when they hallucinate. :cool:
 
BillyJoe said:
Okay, how does one's mental state comes into question when they hallucinate. :cool:
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Do you mean like with folks who have been "diagnosed" with schizophrenia? Why do you ask?
 
Re: Let us put dreams in their rightful perspective!

Hope12 said:
Although God did use dreams in the past to reveal prophetic events and give instructions while his written Word was being produced, he has no need to do so today.
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Yes, without dreams and mysticism, there would be no Bible to speak of.

That written Word contains all the instructions from God that mankind needs at this time, and its prophecies concern events more than a thousand years into the future. 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 So we can be confident that our dreams are not indications from God of future events but essential functions of the brain
Take care,
Hope12:)
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So, whatever happened to this "personal God," who's supposed to reveal Himself to us in the mystical sense? Am I to take it that we're only supposed to understand it in the historical sense then, without the mystery? So yes, God can and often does, speak to us through our dreams.
 
Marquis - Mercutio et el

Do either of you know sometimes when I dream, its vivid, Im reading for example, mind you I dont know if it makes sense but it does in the dream. Doing things Ive never done. Then there is the dreams where they were a direct result of the horror movie you just watched or something that happened that day. Other times its terribly vague.

I wonder if this has to do with messages in dreams or why we think there is messages. Im still with who was it that said its your brain sorting out the days events.

But Hope and Iacchus you both have points regarding messages specifically. Hope you say "the Word contains all the instructions from God that mankind needs at this time" Is the key in your sentence "at this time"? If so that would answer Iacchus somewhat.

That while at this time, its not happening but it is foretold that it will happen in the future. Problem is when does the future start? However, when it starts, I think its gonna be obvious that its from God. Because its going to be different than what is happening now.

(I gotta have a cat nap after that :D )
 
Iacchus said:
Do you mean like with folks who have been "diagnosed" with schizophrenia? Why do you ask?
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Good one, Iacchus, but tell me, how many of you am I talking to? :D
 
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