Do unanswered prayers cause atheism?

Cainkane1 said:
Well a lot of prayers are made and a lot of them are answered with no. Looks to me like there are a lot of dogs and pigs praying. I once knew a five year old dog or pig who prayed for her little brother and her brother died anyway.
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Imagine the volume of prayers sent out in Europe in the 1933-1945 era.
And not answered in similar volumes of "addressee not here".
 
You know, Doc, let me get this straight:

- if you pray to X that (otherwise natural) event Y happens, then X answered your prayers

- if you DON'T pray to X and it happens anyway, X works in mysterious ways and rewarded you anyway and you should thank X anyway

- if you pray to X and nothing happens, then probably you didn't deserve it, or X works in mysterious ways

- if you DON'T pray to X and nothing happens, then it's proof you should have prayed

So basically each combination of prayer or non prayer, and any possible result is proof of X in the illogical little world you guys built. Which is just fine and dandy as long as X="God".

But then if there is no test result which would mean "X doesn't exist", how about we plug in a different X than the abrahamic God. Try replacing X with the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or the Invisible Pink Unicorn, or Odin, or Isis, or Marduk, or the Sun, or Joe Pesci.

I mean, let's apply the same logic for praying to my favourite czech saint for a miracle

- if I pray to Her and it happens, haleluia, She has answered my prayers

- if I don't pray to Her and it happens, She must have rewarded me anyway for being such a nice guy

- if I pray to Her and nothing happens, I must have been undeserving of Her attention

- if I don't pray to Her and nothing happens, well, maybe I should have prayed to her

A test which has no possible "no" answer for your God, doesn't have a possible "no" answer for anyone else.
 
DOC said:
People don't die for a gallon of milk like the apostles did, and a gallon of milk doesn't create the most moral and sublime teachings known to man as many believe Christ teachings were.
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The Heaven's Gate cult were willing to die for spaceship that didn't exist and God didn't write a damn thing. Man did.

I'd argue that a jug of milk is superior to God because the jug can sometimes let me know when specific children have gone missing. It also informs me of its nutritional content. That's more than God ever did for anyone.
 
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slingblade said:
Wait. It can be. It certainly can, else how do you explain those of us who gave religion up?
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Okay, clarification. When I say it's not something that is "caused"
I mean there is nothing that 100% "causes" you to become an athiest.

If there was X that causes athiesm, we would spread it on mass and be done with religion all together.

slingblade said:
There had to be reasons, or causes, for letting belief in god(s) go. I didn't just wake up one morning out of the blue and exclaim, "Oh my god, I just realized there's no god!"
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But even if unanswered prayers were part of it, those around you didn't get their prayers either, right?

So why did you came to your senses and they didn't?

Me thinks something else was involved...

slingblade said:
<snip>
No, sorry. It is one of the things, but it's only one. There are actual causes, real catalysts. Confronting the echoing emptiness when one seeks god is one of those.
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Again, I believe we are arguing terminology here on the definition of what the word "cause" means.

I consider a "cause" to be the and conclusive direct result.

Having prayers unanswered caused you to have doubts and those doubts alongside other issues may have lead to the thing that caused you to return to atheism but it alone was not the direct cause.

As said before, since there is no god and no prayer is answered, why is it that you came to your senses but others around you didn't?
You supposably had the same "cause" didn't you?
 
KingMerv00 said:
The Heaven's Gate cult were willing to die for spaceship that didn't exist and God didn't write a damn thing. Man did.

I'd argue that a jug of milk is superior to God because the jug can sometimes let me know when specific children have gone missing. It also informs me of its nutritional content. That's more than God ever did for anyone.
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Din't he tell the children of Israel that home was -that way-... and a mere 40 years later, they'd managed to walk that couple hundred miles?
 
I Ratant said:
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Din't he tell the children of Israel that home was -that way-... and a mere 40 years later, they'd managed to walk that couple hundred miles?
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To be fair, the reason for the 40 years in the wilderness , as given in the Bible, isn't that it took them all that time to get there, but rather it was so that the generation that had lost faith could die off, as they had shown themselves unworthy to enter the promised land.
 
TimCallahan said:
To be fair, the reason for the 40 years in the wilderness , as given in the Bible, isn't that it took them all that time to get there, but rather it was so that the generation that had lost faith could die off, as they had shown themselves unworthy to enter the promised land.
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Yeah, but the real reason was that Moses gave up trying to teach them to be nomads after 40 years, and re-wrote it to look like he had always intended for them to settle down.
 
Madalch said:
Yeah, but the real reason was that Moses gave up trying to teach them to be nomads after 40 years, and re-wrote it to look like he had always intended for them to settle down.
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They had been... for 38 years in the Sinai in one spot.
Should be about a million graves there.
Not a one.
 
Cainkane1 said:
Do unanswered prayers cause atheism?
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Partly. I think most others here summed up the remaining causes.

I'm not an atheist, but I'm not religious, either. I'm whatever its called - agnostic or whatever. Certainly, I'm not "unsure" of whether the christian God is the God - as in there is only one deity. I don't even know what I'm saying probably.

I'm the whack-job who says we are just separate vessels. Part of a larger collective - like a big brain or eye or something.

When are we gonna see jetpacks hit store shelves? I want the boba-fett style jetpack ! And, and... a hover-board !

Yea, I'm weird. So what. This board is awesome.

Peace,
brokefoot
 
TimCallahan said:
To be fair, the reason for the 40 years in the wilderness , as given in the Bible, isn't that it took them all that time to get there, but rather it was so that the generation that had lost faith could die off, as they had shown themselves unworthy to enter the promised land.
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I still suspect that if we'll ever find evidence of it, it would be more like

Day 10045: Aaron the priest went and asked God if he knows where we're going. God made a huge fuss and said he should damn well know where he put Canaan and we should stop doubting him.

Day 10046: Moses too asked God if He's sure we're going the right way. God said we'll just follow the tracks of the multitude that went before us, as they were surely going somewhere. Eleazar the son of Aaron muttered that that was us going in circles, but God threatened to smite him for his lack of faith.

Day 10048: Aaron went to God again and asked for permissions to ask the merchants from a nearby caravan for directions. There was much thunder and a darkness in the sky and God's booming voice said he doesn't need to ask for directions, 'cause he's God and he knows everything. Also threatened to smite the whole lot of us for lack of faith.

Aaron put his finger to the side of his head and made a sign like turning a small screw and said, "of course, the Lord knows best." And there was much cheering and rejoicing among the men when they heard that.

Day 10049: The merchant caravan reached us and tried to barter with us. They asked where we were going, and Nadab the son of Aaron the priest answered that we were going to Canaan. The merchants tried to tell us that Canaan is north-west and we're going east. Nadab lost his patience and called them liars, and told them that God the creator of everything is leading us and he will damn well know where he put Canaan. The merchants too put their finger to their head, and there was much rejoicing when the men saw them too make the sign that the Lord knows best.​

;)
 
154 said:
Anyone who thinks prayer is "Gimme, gimme, gimme" or that it should prevent people from dying has never been very serious about prayer.
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So those folks praying to end war, end cruelty, end child suffering, those are just greedy folks. I think I see the problem here.
 
I Ratant said:
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Imagine the volume of prayers sent out in Europe in the 1933-1945 era.
And not answered in similar volumes of "addressee not here".
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Laurence Rees in his book on Auschwitz that a Jehovah's Witness said that her imprisonment was god testing her faith. The Witness wasn't free to leave the camp, but she was relatively priviliged, working in the household of the commandant.

Auschwitz, if not the whole network of death and work camps, was about her. When seen in that light it's clear why the prayers of others went unanswered.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Auschwitz-Nazis-Solution-Laurence-Rees/dp/0563521171
 
Filippo Lippi said:
Laurence Rees in his book on Auschwitz that a Jehovah's Witness said that her imprisonment was god testing her faith. The Witness wasn't free to leave the camp, but she was relatively priviliged, working in the household of the commandant.

Auschwitz, if not the whole network of death and work camps, was about her. When seen in that light it's clear why the prayers of others went unanswered.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Auschwitz-Nazis-Solution-Laurence-Rees/dp/0563521171
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That is sad.
Those people don't seem to comprehend they have become their god.
It is all about them.
 
154 said:
Anyone who thinks prayer is "Gimme, gimme, gimme" or that it should prevent people from dying has never been very serious about prayer.
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And yet he helps athletes succeed and sports teams win, as we're reminded repeatedly every week by said athletes. Because yeah, that's important in the grand scheme of things. Though, obviously God hates the Cowboys (it's about time). They built a $1.2 billion temple to their god and look where it got them.

KingMerv00 said:
I'd argue that a jug of milk is superior to God because the jug can sometimes let me know when specific children have gone missing. It also informs me of its nutritional content. That's more than God ever did for anyone.
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Especially if it's Tuscan Whole Milk 1 Gallon 128 fl oz! Tuscan Whole Milk 1 Gallon 128 fl oz can do anything!
 
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