Do unanswered prayers cause atheism?

[sphenisc]

What about people to whom he only sends crocodiles?

Sobek's better at answering prayers.

 

[ddt]

What about people to whom he only sends crocodiles?

They're not crocodiles, they're the Lacoste rescue team.

 

[Cainkane1]

If the milk says "no", you can drink it and pray to another gallon tomorrow.

I might start praying to a six pack.

 

[ddt]

People don't die for a gallon of milk

No, but a lot of people die for lack of a gallon of milk. Why lets God that happen?

 

[GrandMasterFox]

Well as I heard one preacher say, God does answer all prayer, he just sometimes says No (also the time might not be right for the prayer to be answered).

No, he doesn't say no. Saying "no", means you get a message saying "no".
Not answering is the correct term.

Also, I've heard it said that if you are not living a good life God is less likely to give you your desires. In other words if your committing sin one minute and praying the next, it is likely that you won't receive your desire.

Oh please...
If you get it, god did it.
If you don't get it, you're not doing it right.

Heads I win, tail you lose.

Here's a question for you - let's say I pray to win the lottery.
I'm one of those "filthy athiests" you fear so much. I have no belief in this god of yours what so ever. And I'm praying for the lottery - That's greed!

If I do win the lottery, was that because I prayed?

People don't die for a gallon of milk like the apostles did

And as you were told like a billion times already that only proves that people believe stuff. Doesn't mean the stuff is or isn't real.

, and a gallon of milk doesn't create the most moral and sublime teachings known to man as many believe Christ teachings were.

Excuse me, I actually had to stop writing because I couldn't stop laughing at this rubbish.

All the stuff you claim was originally christ was not a christ invention as was demonstrated to you over and over again.

Also, still waiting for that issue about Jesus condeming apostasy.

 

[GrandMasterFox]

As for the OP, the answer is "NO".

Athiesim isn't something that's "caused".
Is there something that causes us "not to collect stamps"?
Sure, you could say it's boring, but that's subjective and works differnetly for individuals.

Also like we are all born as "non stamp collectors" until the day we start collecting, you are born as an athiest to begin with.

So the only thing that truly "causes" athiesm for everyone is birth.

 

[GrandMasterFox]

Concerning the hilited area: Here's the rub. How can one either verify or falsify the efficacy of prayer if a negative result still means God is listening?

Well as was mentioned in the other thread, there were attempts to measure proper scientific results. It was an abysmal failure.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

People don't die for a gallon of milk like the apostles did, and a gallon of milk doesn't create the most moral and sublime teachings known to man as many believe Christ teachings were.

And, of course, most of those teachings were stolen from other sources by the guys who genned up the bible.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

And how does one distinguish between "No." and non-existence?

Simple. Geisler says it. I believe it. That settles it.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

As for the OP, the answer is "NO".

Athiesim isn't something that's "caused".
Is there something that causes us "not to collect stamps"?

There are certainly things which might make you stop collecting stamps. Probably both pull- and push-factors. For instance it might dawn upon you that instead of getting rich, you are losing money, or develop an interest in different things.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

There are certainly things which might make you stop collecting stamps. Probably both pull- and push-factors. For instance it might dawn upon you that instead of getting rich, you are losing money, or develop an interest in different things.

I never collected stamp, not the slightest interest in it. I've been an astampist from birth.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I never collected stamp, not the slightest interest in it. I've been an astampist from birth.

What is true for you might not be true for everybody. But you certainly know that.

 

[Cainkane1]

Yes, but he says all of the above immediately after this verse:

Matthew 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

This implies that God is not going to give anything to those who are living non-sacred unbelieving lives.

He is not going to free Charles Manson from prison right after he is sentenced to 20 years for being involved in several murders because Manson decides to pray one night - that is just common sense.

Also there are at least 12 interpretations of the Sermon on the Mount (from which those verses came). The 12 are listed here under the sub-heading "Interpretations":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sermon_on_the_Mount

Well a lot of prayers are made and a lot of them are answered with no. Looks to me like there are a lot of dogs and pigs praying. I once knew a five year old dog or pig who prayed for her little brother and her brother died anyway.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

What is true for you might not be true for everybody. But you certainly know that.

No, really, that's a total surprise. And we know the vice is versa there.

 

[Foggy of the Fogbow]

I tried to be a believer. God knows I tried.

I even went through the "confirmation" classes in my Episcopal church and became confirmed.

Then I graduated high school and went off to California to be a hippy for the rest of my life. Which didn't work out for me, in the long run. I eventually realized that you have to work your ass off to survive in this world, whether you make any money or not, so you might as well get a college education and make some money while you're doing it.

In San Francisco, they tried to convert me to every type of religion. One group wanted me to chant "Nam myoho renge kyo". Huh?

Eventually I asked myself:

If I arrived sans religion from another planet and investigated all the world's religions to see which one made the most rational sense, which one would I choose?

So I became an agnostic, and never looked back.

 

[slingblade]

As for the OP, the answer is "NO".

Athiesim isn't something that's "caused".

Wait. It can be. It certainly can, else how do you explain those of us who gave religion up?

There had to be reasons, or causes, for letting belief in god(s) go. I didn't just wake up one morning out of the blue and exclaim, "Oh my god, I just realized there's no god!"

Now, those who weren't indoctrinated at some point in their lives can probably say their atheism wasn't caused, but simply "was." Some of them will readily admit they did look into religion, did examine and weigh it, and decided they wouldn't partake. Others never really bothered, and just found themselves not missing what they'd never had and didn't seem to need.

Is there something that causes us "not to collect stamps"?
Sure, you could say it's boring, but that's subjective and works differnetly for individuals.

Also like we are all born as "non stamp collectors" until the day we start collecting, you are born as an athiest to begin with.

Right, but once we have started collecting stamps, something--even if it is boredom--something causes some of us to quit. To give it up. To not "do" religion anymore, and to not believe god(s) are real.

And yes, a huge part of it for me was the whole God doesn't hear me, doesn't help me though I'm begging for help, doesn't give me peace or make me feel loved or grant me strength...god seems to act exactly as if he isn't there.

What if he isn't?


...now that I'm really looking...I don't see how he can be. None of this makes the sense you'd expect it to make if an actual god were running things, ordering things, making and enacting plans for people's lives...if life operates exactly as if we're on our own, what on earth is keeping me thinking we're not?

So the only thing that truly "causes" athiesm for everyone is birth.

No, sorry. It is one of the things, but it's only one. There are actual causes, real catalysts. Confronting the echoing emptiness when one seeks god is one of those.

 

[Cainkane1]

Wait. It can be. It certainly can, else how do you explain those of us who gave religion up?

There had to be reasons, or causes, for letting belief in god(s) go. I didn't just wake up one morning out of the blue and exclaim, "Oh my god, I just realized there's no god!"

Now, those who weren't indoctrinated at some point in their lives can probably say their atheism wasn't caused, but simply "was." Some of them will readily admit they did look into religion, did examine and weigh it, and decided they wouldn't partake. Others never really bothered, and just found themselves not missing what they'd never had and didn't seem to need.




Right, but once we have started collecting stamps, something--even if it is boredom--something causes some of us to quit. To give it up. To not "do" religion anymore, and to not believe god(s) are real.

And yes, a huge part of it for me was the whole God doesn't hear me, doesn't help me though I'm begging for help, doesn't give me peace or make me feel loved or grant me strength...god seems to act exactly as if he isn't there.

What if he isn't?


...now that I'm really looking...I don't see how he can be. None of this makes the sense you'd expect it to make if an actual god were running things, ordering things, making and enacting plans for people's lives...if life operates exactly as if we're on our own, what on earth is keeping me thinking we're not?



No, sorry. It is one of the things, but it's only one. There are actual causes, real catalysts. Confronting the echoing emptiness when one seeks god is one of those.

I agree with you Slingblade. I went through prayer and a belief in the man in the air but over time when none of my prayers were answered despite their sincerity (maybe I'm a pig or a dog like Doc describes) and nothing happened I quit wasting my time. The bible describes "the faith of a child" so I had faith until I decided I could do better things with my time such as going to a doctor when I got sick.

Woo woo and the man in the sky ceased to exist.

 

[iknownothing]

People don't die for a gallon of milk like the apostles did, and a gallon of milk doesn't create the most moral and sublime teachings known to man as many believe Christ teachings were.

People do die for Allah, and many believe that the Koran reveals the most moral and sublime teachings. So neither of those factors really counts for figuring out what's correct, do they?

This implies that God is not going to give anything to those who are living non-sacred unbelieving lives.

You aren't listening. People here are talking about all the praying they did when they were believers.

Anyone who thinks prayer is "Gimme, gimme, gimme" or that it should prevent people from dying has never been very serious about prayer.

You, also, are ignoring the fact that people are talking about what they experienced when they sincerely believed. I know I tried very hard to do prayer the "right" way -- establish a relationship with God, align myself with his will, blah blah blah.

But praying for things is also part of it -- look at the Lord's Prayer and tell me that asking for things is not being serious? You'll need to take that up with Jesus. I'm particularly surprised that you would be dismissive about praying for healing, since that's actively encouraged by every Christian church I've been exposed to.

Confronting the echoing emptiness when one seeks god is one of those.

Doc and 154, if you continue to respond to a comment like this by saying she wasn't serious about prayer or wasn't really a believer, then your posts will come across as dishonest. A lot of people are praying just for some indication that God is there and is hearing them, but still come up empty after years of trying.

 

[thatguywhojuggles]

It wasn't exactly praying that made me an atheist... but close.

At 13, I'd already begun to seriously doubt. At 13 I was also being overwhelmed by hormones. I wanted to get laid more than anything.

So I created a test. I stood out in an open field and made an offer of my eternal soul to the Devil in exchange for the power to get any girl I wanted. Seemed a fair trade. And I figured if I got what I asked for, that would prove the Devil exists--I figured if the Devil existed, so did God.

I'm still waiting for that power.

 

[slingblade]

Yes, but he says all of the above immediately after this verse:

Matthew 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

This implies that God is not going to give anything to those who are living non-sacred unbelieving lives.

He is not going to free Charles Manson from prison right after he is sentenced to 20 years for being involved in several murders because Manson decides to pray one night - that is just common sense.

Also there are at least 12 interpretations of the Sermon on the Mount (from which those verses came). The 12 are listed here under the sub-heading "Interpretations":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sermon_on_the_Mount

Okay. But what's he going to do for the meek, subservient, obedient wife whose Christian, church-going, praise-and-worshiping, deacon of the church husband won't quit drinking, cheating, and hitting her?

Is it okay for her to ask for help from God?
Can she ask healing for her husband?
Is it permissible to ask god to heal the alcoholic, to turn him from drink, to stop him smacking his wife around in a drunken rage on Saturday night, just before he staggers to church to apologize to god, but never, ever, ever apologizes to his bruised and defeated wife?

Is god supposed to help her, and him, in any way at all, or is god's total silence what you'd expect?