AmyStrange
Philosopher
Do allegedly illegal immigrants pay taxes?
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dirtywick
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2006
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i think what's interesting is a significant percentage of them do pay all the same taxes as everyone else, income, sales, property, etc. but receive none of the rights or benefits.
Tax Payments by Undocumented Immigrants
Undocumented immigrants paid $96.7 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022. Providing access to work authorization for undocumented immigrants would increase their tax contributions both because their wages would rise and because their rates of tax compliance would increase.
itep.org
it seems they pay an average of $9k per person in total taxes per year
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Yep. He clarifies for you right there, he's talking about income tax.
Why would anyone bother saying people don't pay sales tax at point of sale. Why would you bother assuming that's what he meant, when he clearly puts it in the context of income tax?
AmyStrange
Philosopher
Read the post again (and ALL the comments in this thread, and the thread I've posted from above). They did exactly that in the very first sentence, but I guess being willfully ignorant is addicting:
"Yeah, they pay sales tax when they buy stuff. Maybe. Or their [sic] clever and offer to pay in cash and no sales tax charged."
And besides, their comments weren't the only reason I started this thread (which you ignored, especially the part where I actually agreed with your post somewhat)...
...but if you want to keep up this crap, go for it.
I'm tired of going round and round with you about something so petty it's not even funny.
ETA: Also, another reason I started this thread was because this whole discussion was beginning to sidetrack this thread:
And it started with this post:
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Manopolus
Metaphorical Anomaly
Drug dealers from Mexico do not typically pay for the required tax stamp, and will also not likely pay any tariffs. Also, many get "paid under the table" at their jobs... but keep in mind that their wage isn't likely increased as a result of the employers' non-compliance with employment law. Thus, it's the employer who benefits, not the immigrant.
Anything they buy from the legitimate economy will be taxed as required in the jurisdiction purchased, however.
In any case, I suggest we move this to politics if you're trying to make it into a political point. There is no room for "shoulds" or "shouldn'ts or "outrage" in an economy. There is only cause and effect. You could possibly discuss the way it impacts the broader economy, but mindless resentment has no place in such a discussion. The latter would belong in politics, assuming that we should tolerate it at all.
And let's keep in mind that any money they get is dependent upon someone's willingness to pay them. Blaming the one getting paid doesn't hold much water unless they're being paid to do something that would be illegal even if they were doing it for free (drug smuggling, etc.).
Anything they buy from the legitimate economy will be taxed as required in the jurisdiction purchased, however.
In any case, I suggest we move this to politics if you're trying to make it into a political point. There is no room for "shoulds" or "shouldn'ts or "outrage" in an economy. There is only cause and effect. You could possibly discuss the way it impacts the broader economy, but mindless resentment has no place in such a discussion. The latter would belong in politics, assuming that we should tolerate it at all.
And let's keep in mind that any money they get is dependent upon someone's willingness to pay them. Blaming the one getting paid doesn't hold much water unless they're being paid to do something that would be illegal even if they were doing it for free (drug smuggling, etc.).
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AmyStrange
Philosopher
That's actually where I was going to put it originally, but hey, I asked where to put this in the "Forum Information and Guidance > Forum Management Feedback > Questions" section, and no one answered except one person. They suggested that this was a good place, so there's that.
Obviously, management doesn't care where I put it, but please, if you think I'm wrong then report this thread, and if they really do care, they'll fix it, but until then...
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novaphile
Quester of Doglets
I don't think it is the immigrants that are not paying taxes.
It is the EMPLOYERS who are not paying the income taxes.
(Remember employers are required to withhold income tax.)
It is the EMPLOYERS who are not paying the income taxes.
(Remember employers are required to withhold income tax.)
AmyStrange
Philosopher
dirtywick
Penultimate Amazing
- Joined
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i think that's a great point. when you look at the taxes immigrants do pay, it's mostly the ones we are all obligated to pay such as the ones listed earlier. and then you also have to consider if you are over paying you file your taxes and receive a refund, immigrants have no such recourse. immigrant are also not provided benefits like health insurance, of which you only pay a portion of relative to your employer.
AmyStrange
Philosopher
Yup, plus many of them are getting paid ◊◊◊◊ wages like a huge chunk (taxes, FICA etc.) is actually being taken out of their paycheck.
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To be fair, I'd rather talk about the economics of it rather than the politics so, for me it still stands that it should be here.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
It's a terrible point. The employer withholds part of the employee's paycheck, for tax purposes, on the employee's behalf and with the employee's consent. It's still the employee's money, and they're still responsible for making sure it's all been paid at the end of the year.
Employees, can also opt to *not* have their employer withhold their pay on their behalf, take home all their pay, and pay the taxes themselves when the time comes.
It's a weird system that obfuscates what is really going on, causing confusion such as we see here.
The contention is that some (many?) of them get paid in cash which leaves no record and triggers no taxation. This contention is based on the assumption that some (many?) illegal immigrants cannot get legal work permits. Thus they make up a pool of cheap labor that can be employed off the books.
Is that what really happens? People who favor illegal immigration will tell you it doesn't, or at least not enough to be worth caring about.
Me, I oppose illegal immigration, but I don't know if this income tax thing is a serious problem.
Manopolus
Metaphorical Anomaly
To be honest with you, I couldn't say. The one person I knew who I knew for a fact was here illegally (expired student visa) and had a job still managed to work as a cook in a restaurant (so... not just odd jobs), but I have no idea what their arrangement was. I don't think he was faking his identity, but can't say that I know that for a fact. He eventually got picked up and sent back to Senegal, but he was here for several years after his visa expired and actually had several legitimate-seeming jobs over that period.
He was a good friend, but I always minded my own business and he never volunteered anything on how that worked.
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I wonder if a student visa would allow you to work, you'd get a Tax Identification number if so. Seems like a student ought to be able to work if for internships if nothing else.
I've known and worked with a number of illegals. Never asked if they were under the table or not, seemed like a bad idea.
I've known and worked with a number of illegals. Never asked if they were under the table or not, seemed like a bad idea.
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theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
According to Google's AI, student visas allow for on-campus jobs, and off-campus jobs that qualify as practical training (I assume for their course of study). So I imagine that paid internships would be allowed, assuming they are properly formed and registered as practical training opportunities.