"Diversity"

I agree that the horror stories about affirmative action are grossly inflated. We're not facing a crisis of anti-"majority" discrimination at the moment.

What do you base that agreement on - any facts? What if it's "only" a thousand or a hundred or ten white students who unfairly have their careers wrecked in violation of the law - that's OK, huh?
 
Well, some people think that being around people from diverse backgrounds is an enriching expirience.

The people who believe that can easily find those experiences on their own time - that a University be allowed to spit on the constitution and deny entrance to students who have merited entrance by their high qualifications, but failed in the correct skin category, just so whoever is left can have such "experiences", is discarding the constitution, unethical, and irrational.
 
Patrick said:
What do you base that agreement on - any facts? What if it's "only" a thousand or a hundred or ten white students who unfairly have their careers wrecked in violation of the law - that's OK, huh?

If you actually read my posts before attacking what you think my position is, you'd see that I don't believe any system designed to promote diversity can be just or desirable.

The statement you quote above is where I expressed my disbelief in this "jihad" of yours. I don't feel I need to prove that personal opinion by reference to deodorant commercials, Wesley Snipes movies, or Kmart advertising supplements in the Sunday paper.
 
OK, just checking to see if you had any grasp of the subject at hand ( or any desire for rational discourse), or if you would devolve into the standard trollage of ad homs and forgery of other people's positions for them, after parroting a few glib catch phrases...

I responded to your statements with valid rebuttals! "Forgery"? "Ad homs"? "Catch phrases"? What the devil are you talking about? My rebuttals stand - I can only assume you are too cowardly to debate - actually a not unreasonable stance in this case - "don't bite off what you can't chew".
 
If you actually read my posts before attacking what you think my position is, you'd see that I don't believe any system designed to promote diversity can be just or desirable.

If you are saying you oppose all such systems, as well as all discrimination schemes, then I stand corrected.
 
crimresearch said:
Who said it had anything to do with Ice Ages or anything like that?

The Kenniwick case revolved around claims by a specific tribe that those bones *belonged* to them, and were in fact one of *their ancestors*...as it turns out, that claim was disproven by scientific means and the material was returned to the researchers by court order.

I suppose one would have to be a skeptic to see any value in science triumphing over religion and superstition.

Well, as usual you're using the incivil ad-homs, now would you address what I said, instead of what you want to address?

The issue of who belonged to the bones is irrelevant. The science, finally, triumphed after a long struggle with nonsense. This, however, has nothing to do with your comment
leave open the possibility that someone was here earlier, and that the 'Native Americans' usurped their place, possibly through similar means as the Europeans later employed.
which would appear to be establishing the idea that somehow, a "here first and established ownership" was relevant.

I'm simply pointing out that your suggestion of that principle ignores a whole host of issues, including "why did they leave"? Yes, they could have been driven out, they could have also left, died, been absorbed, etc...

Your argument runs perilously close to suggesting that "american belonged to the white man first".

Now, if you'd like to get on topic, and discuss the issues, instead of an incivil misrepresentation of my position that you think that you might be able to attack to further your personal attack on me, do it.
 
crimresearch said:
One of the negative consequences was when African Americans adapted to a power vacuum, and started discriminating against other minorities...AA is not the only place where this happened, but it created a double set of gate-keepers...one white, and one black, making it harder for other minorities to move up in society though access to higher education, jobs, etc.

This is remarkably like the rather unpleasant social structure that developed in mill towns, where the rule was "you do what your daddy did" (for men, at least). Both the ruling folks (who benefitted from the lack of competition) and their victims (who supported it out of jealousy, mostly, for those able to do otherwise) supported the system vigorously, with words, fists, lies, deeds, false accusations, cheating, accusations of cheating and you-name-it.

The prejudice is so ingrained as to have someone ask "how did you pay for THAT? Drug money?" when a Bell Labs research scientist (who grew up on the wrong side) shows up at a High School Reunion with a new car. Said question was not malicious, well, yes, it was malicious, but not in the usual sense, the asker really couldn't comprehend that a Bell Labs researcher could afford a new car, because that researcher came from the wrong part of town.

Now, I didn't say "the same", only very similar, but in fact both the people in power and the people who are held down enforce the stratification, one by pushing down, the other by pulling down.
 
Re: Re: Let's be honest.

thaiboxerken said:
"We all know"?! That is a BS argument. You have no evidence to back up your assertion that diversity equates to preferential treatment. When I see the word "diversity", it tells me that the company is an equal opportunity employer. Then again, I'm not a redneck, so maybe I don't know anything.

Yeah, that's what it is. I'm a redneck. That must be it. Anybody who thinks that maybe individuals should be judged solely on the content of their character (or their abilities) rather than their ethnic background (or their gender, or their "orientation", etc.) must be a redneck. Jeeze, I think I heard that somewhere - content of their character - rings a bell, but I just can't place it.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's be honest.

thaiboxerken said:
LOL. But it is an issue. They want it to be clear that they are not a racist company. You know, some companies even say that they will not discriminate based on religion or sexual preference either. Does this mean that they really do?

I'm confused here. If a company says they are equal opportunity employers, this really means that they are racist?

This is not a difficult concept. Explain to me how be racially conscious, how making race a criteria on which you evaluate the merits of one candidate over another is not being racist? The same applies to gender and sexual orientation issues. I thought not being racist meant being color BLIND????
 
When I went to college I met people from all different backgrounds. I learned alot dealing with such a diverse crowd. Im still friends with many of them. Diversity is a good thing.

Its not just a race thing either. Shools will tap students from different states, countries, socio ecomomic, atheletic, employment backgrounds ect....

I dont know of one schools application thats just:

NAME _________
SAT SCORE ________
 
Tmy said:
When I went to college I met people from all different backgrounds. I learned alot dealing with such a diverse crowd. Im still friends with many of them. Diversity is a good thing.

So how come nobody likes you?

Its not just a race thing either. Shools will tap students from different states, countries, socio ecomomic, atheletic, employment backgrounds ect....

I dont know of one schools application thats just:

NAME _________
SAT SCORE ________

It's a pity they don't.
 
Patrick said:
OK, just checking to see if you had any grasp of the subject at hand ( or any desire for rational discourse), or if you would devolve into the standard trollage of ad homs and forgery of other people's positions for them, after parroting a few glib catch phrases...

I responded to your statements with valid rebuttals! "Forgery"? "Ad homs"? "Catch phrases"? What the devil are you talking about? My rebuttals stand - I can only assume you are too cowardly to debate - actually a not unreasonable stance in this case - "don't bite off what you can't chew".

No, you responded with illogical distortions of my statements, non sequiturs, argumentem ad hominem, and now the usual JREF tactic that intolerant trolls like JJ adopt, of insisting that I 'debate' things I had never posited.

When I posted factual support for your criticism of AA, and your Kennewick comments, you promptly turned around and argued against them...that isn't a rebuttal, that is trolling, plain and simple.

Don't worry though, you will have plenty of playmates, I however prefer to spend my time talking with people who know their subject and have something to offer.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Or the exact opposite, appeal to people by pointing out that everyone there already is not one "kind".

I suppose. :)

Personally, the only "kind" I care about is the cool "kind".
 
c0rbin said:
Well, some people think that being around people from diverse backgrounds is an enriching expirience.

Thankfully, people who want to be around "their own kind" tend to stay home in Jasper and not bother with universities.

I stand corrected.

I'm pretty jaded when it comes to racial politics, so I tend to assume the worse.
 
Dancing David said:
Did anybody talk yet about the law students who got into the University of Michigan with lower test scores even though they were white.
Or the incipid practice of legacy admissions?
 
crimresearch said:
and now the usual JREF tactic that intolerant trolls like JJ adopt, of insisting that I 'debate' things I had never posited.

Thank you for your incivil, false accusation of misconduct. It will be considered properly and held in evidence.
 
No, you responded with illogical distortions of my statements, non sequiturs, argumentem ad hominem, and now the usual JREF tactic that intolerant trolls like JJ adopt, of insisting that I 'debate' things I had never posited.

Nooooooo .... let's look at in detail what made you run like a frightened rabbit, screeching insults as you headed for cover:

"Not everything that is ethical is painless, or fair, nor will it make everyone happy."

Because that is true doesn't mean anything that is painful or unfair is ethical - it can be unethical too, as is "diversity". It's quite illogical to justify creating NEW unfairness because some unfairness exists in the world - we aspire to decrease the unfairness - for everybody.


You appeared to be implying that sometimes good changes bring about temporary pain, I pointed out that bad things cause pain, that because "diversity" bears a specious resemblance to the former, that that doesn't necessarily mean it IS one of those good things. Now, how is that a trollerism? Intolerant? It's nothing but normal debate!


"Attempting to address old inequities by tilting the playing field has, as shown, the potential to cause friction between different minorities...but leaving things exactly as they are and waiting for a more ethical system to evolve on its own is likely to take until the next Ice Age..."

A false dichotomy - the choice shouldn't be (and isn't) between old discrimination and new discrimination, but the third, correct choice of enforcing the existing law that is in fact in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Equal Protection Clause, but just ignored by the liberal/left judiciary.


Responding to your sarcastic tone about an "ice age", I calmly pointed out to you that a different approach may be neither of "ice age" duration nor "diversity". I quoted you a statute and part of the constitution in support of my claim. Is this your "forgery"? "Catch phrases"? Honestly, I have no idea how you could give such a strange response to what is, again, normal debate.

The inertia inherent in the relationsip between superordinates and subordinates is substantial, and just waving a Constitutional Amendment around and chanting 'everybody is equal' won't get it.

"just waving a Constitutional Amendment"??? Do you have the slightest grasp of the constitution?? The constitution is not something that is just "waved around" but that which seperates us from dictatorships and banana republics - places like saddam's Iraq! "Inertia"?? That sounds vague. People can and do sue for discrimination and win. Implementing anti-white discrimination policies to overcome supposed "inertia" (whatever that is) can't be view as ethical, constitutional, or rational. It's like there is a hole in your yard, and you "solve" it by digging another hole to fill up the first one.


Once again, you adopt a sarcastic tone showing great disrespect for the fundamental law of the land, the constitution, while giving a false summary of my arguments. I point out to you that taking one persons rights to supposedly give them to another makes no sense - go look at the phraseology of the bill of rights and other amendments -- they are all couched in language indicating they are universal. I carefully point this out to you, giving you an analogy to help you understand. Is that your "ad hominem"?? More trollery? Again what the devil are you talking about???

"Without a system along the lines of AA, how long do weu think it would have taken for there to be minority alumni at Harvard, so that their children could start to enjoy the perks of being a 'legacy'? Some of the vestiges of the old system had to be dismanteld, and unfortunatley it got 'fixed' in a clumsy and imperfect manner.

This is a standard red herring "AA" advocates like to bring up. The perhaps few thousands of students who benefit by such systems are vastly, overwhelmingly outnumbered by the millions of minority students who get a free boost for having the "correct" skin color - essentially every minority who applies. Leave alone the issue that the latter is based on racial discrimination, not the former.


You bring up a standard invalid argument used by "diversity" supporters, which attempts to balance a few privileged white legacies against millions of hyper-privileged minorities. It needs nothing more than stating the facts to expose this argument as invalid. If you're not convinced (and one wonders why you wouldn't be) then don't be convinced, but what does this have to do with your list of insults? I'm beginning to recognize this "troll" stuff for what it is -- the last fallback position of someone who is losing a debate, and feels compelled to yell insults as he runs away from the debating hall.
 
Did anybody talk yet about the law students who got into the University of Michigan with lower test scores even though they were white.

Not that I saw. Tell me about them.
 

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