Directed Energy Weapons ??

[HereticHulk]

So, what you are saying is that it is YOUR interpretation of the PNAC that is correct, right?

Perhaps then you could explain how 911 has brought about ANY of the objectives in the PNAC?

You can name just one; it's ok.

.....your joking, right?

To achieve this grand strategic goal, the PNAC says these steps must be achieved:

* Saddam deposed

* Afghanistan invaded

* Arafat isolated

* Syria cowed

* UN sidelined

* Iran punished

As the world has seen, nearly all of these aims have been achieved.

2. The Office of Special Plans
This new intelligence agency was set up in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks by US defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Frustrated by the failure of conventional spying organisations such as the CIA to come up with proof that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction and was linked to Osama bin Laden, the OSP cherry-picked intelligence from mountains of raw data to build the intelligence picture its political masters required.

3. Bush and Blair
With Bush fully briefed by Rumsfeld using intelligence from the OSP, the US was convinced it had a case to prosecute a war against Iraq. But could America take its allies with it? Blair was briefed at length by Bush and other leading members of the US administration using OSP information. The British intelligence services were not coming up with the same sort of information that the OSP were collating. Nevertheless, Blair threw his lot in with Bush, banking on the OSP intelligence.

4. Troops and conflict
With Afghanistan under US control after the first major battle in the seemingly endless war on terror, Bush and Blair were able to topple Saddam using the OSP intelligence to take the public with them. With Iraq occupied, the hawks have turned their attentions to Iran, with claims that the 'Mullahcracy', in the words of the neo-conservatives, had a weapons of mass destruction programme and was tied to al-Qaeda. Sound familiar?

5. Pax Americana
This is the ultimate aim of the neo-conservatives now running the United States. America stands as the world's policeman, the US has no powerful rivals and global capitalism flourishes: the PNAC's project is complete.

 

[twinstead]

Dude. Can you show me where these goals are in the PNAC?

Show me in the PNAC, for example, where it specifically mentions
'Saddam disposed'.

Have you read the PNAC?

 

[HereticHulk]

DOOD! So your position boils down to semantics then?

I've read enough........

How about this letter from some of the PNAC group to Clinton?

January 26, 1998

The Honorable William J. Clinton
President of the United States
Washington, DC

Dear Mr. President:

We are writing you because we are convinced that current American policy toward Iraq is not succeeding, and that we may soon face a threat in the Middle East more serious than any we have known since the end of the Cold War. In your upcoming State of the Union Address, you have an opportunity to chart a clear and determined course for meeting this threat. We urge you to seize that opportunity, and to enunciate a new strategy that would secure the interests of the U.S. and our friends and allies around the world. That strategy should aim, above all, at the removal of Saddam Hussein�s regime from power. We stand ready to offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor.

The policy of �containment� of Saddam Hussein has been steadily eroding over the past several months. As recent events have demonstrated, we can no longer depend on our partners in the Gulf War coalition to continue to uphold the sanctions or to punish Saddam when he blocks or evades UN inspections. Our ability to ensure that Saddam Hussein is not producing weapons of mass destruction, therefore, has substantially diminished. Even if full inspections were eventually to resume, which now seems highly unlikely, experience has shown that it is difficult if not impossible to monitor Iraq�s chemical and biological weapons production. The lengthy period during which the inspectors will have been unable to enter many Iraqi facilities has made it even less likely that they will be able to uncover all of Saddam�s secrets. As a result, in the not-too-distant future we will be unable to determine with any reasonable level of confidence whether Iraq does or does not possess such weapons.

Such uncertainty will, by itself, have a seriously destabilizing effect on the entire Middle East. It hardly needs to be added that if Saddam does acquire the capability to deliver weapons of mass destruction, as he is almost certain to do if we continue along the present course, the safety of American troops in the region, of our friends and allies like Israel and the moderate Arab states, and a significant portion of the world�s supply of oil will all be put at hazard. As you have rightly declared, Mr. President, the security of the world in the first part of the 21st century will be determined largely by how we handle this threat.

Given the magnitude of the threat, the current policy, which depends for its success upon the steadfastness of our coalition partners and upon the cooperation of Saddam Hussein, is dangerously inadequate. The only acceptable strategy is one that eliminates the possibility that Iraq will be able to use or threaten to use weapons of mass destruction. In the near term, this means a willingness to undertake military action as diplomacy is clearly failing. In the long term, it means removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power. That now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy.

We urge you to articulate this aim, and to turn your Administration's attention to implementing a strategy for removing Saddam's regime from power. This will require a full complement of diplomatic, political and military efforts. Although we are fully aware of the dangers and difficulties in implementing this policy, we believe the dangers of failing to do so are far greater. We believe the U.S. has the authority under existing UN resolutions to take the necessary steps, including military steps, to protect our vital interests in the Gulf. In any case, American policy cannot continue to be crippled by a misguided insistence on unanimity in the UN Security Council.

We urge you to act decisively. If you act now to end the threat of weapons of mass destruction against the U.S. or its allies, you will be acting in the most fundamental national security interests of the country. If we accept a course of weakness and drift, we put our interests and our future at risk.

Sincerely,

Elliott Abrams Richard L. Armitage William J. Bennett

Jeffrey Bergner John Bolton Paula Dobriansky

Francis Fukuyama Robert Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad

William Kristol Richard Perle Peter W. Rodman

Donald Rumsfeld William Schneider, Jr. Vin Weber

Paul Wolfowitz R. James Woolsey Robert B. Zoellick

Will this suffice?

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Dude. Can you show me where these goals are in the PNAC?

Show me in the PNAC, for example, where it specifically mentions
'Saddam disposed'.

Have you read the PNAC?

considering that he quoted this as an "exceprt"

Section V of Rebuilding America's Defenses, entitled "Creating Tomorrow's Dominant Force", includes the sentence: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor

im going to say, no

 

[twinstead]

How about this letter from some of the PNAC group to Clinton?
Will this suffice?

Oh. So it isn't in the actual PNAC document, it's a related letter from some of the group to Clinton.

So, why did you imply that it was part of the PNAC?

 

[twinstead]

HeriticHulk, there's a HUGE thread about the PNAC in this section of the forum. Perhaps it would be 'propitious' if you searched for it and read it...

 

[DGM]

DOOD! So your position boils down to semantics then?

I've read enough........

How about this letter from some of the PNAC group to Clinton?


Will this suffice?

If you want a good laugh read the letters from the PNAC to Bush after 9/11, like 2 years after. It's fun to read how they say he is doing nothing to support their recommendations.

 

[twinstead]

If you want a good laugh read the letters from the PNAC to Bush after 9/11, like 2 years after. It's fun to read how they say he is doing nothing to support their recommendations.

Come on, don't ruin the moment.

 

[Bell]

[derail]
Are we done talking DEWs for now?
[/derail]

 

[twinstead]

[derail]
Are we done talking DEWs for now?
[/derail]

Oh, yea. That's what the thread was about

Back on track. DEWs ROCK!

 

[DGM]

How this for a DEW?

 

[Bell]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_1707446646876428a1.jpg[/qimg]

How this for a DEW?

Oh yeah? My DEW is bigger than your DEW!

 

[PhantomWolf]

In other words, the Beam Weapon Hypothesis is absolutely impossible. I don't care what technology you think we're hiding, it simpy can't be done.

Perhaps using one of these:

Or these:

Or these?

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Well assuming they used truck mounted laser weapons I come up with............................................30 million truck mounted laser weapons! The video evidence I've seen does not support this theory.

Seriously, your the 2nd person who has asked me to speculate on the capabilities of weapon that for all intents and purposes would most likely be something you'll not find on google or wikipedia.

It's not asking you to speculate. These weapons would have to produce a tremendous amount of energy to do the things you claim. That means they would need a huge energy source. I'm asking you to calculate this for yourself so you can see how ridiculously large such a weapon would be, and how outlandish the power requirements would be. Then maybe, having done this, you will see exactly how stupid this idea is. Directed energy beams of the power you're talking about are as real as saying my cookies are baked by elves in trees!

There's another issue than just the power source needed that's nearly as insurmountable.

Any machine or device will lose some of the energy that's put into it in the form of waste heat. Getting rid of that waste heat is the reason why cars have radiators and home computers have fans and heat sinks.

If we are really, really generous and assume that our mythical WTC Killing Beam Weapon of Doom™ loses only 1% of the energy that's fed into it to waste heat, then this device that has the power of 30 million Boeing Laser Trucks is basically blasting itself with the strength of three hundred thousand laser trucks every time you pull the trigger.

Mackey described a possible beam weapon with an explosive power source and listed some of the problems that would cause. This beam cannon would likely explode when fired anyway regardless of it's power source.

 

[JimBenArm]

There's another issue than just the power source needed that's nearly as insurmountable.

Any machine or device will lose some of the energy that's put into it in the form of waste heat. Getting rid of that waste heat is the reason why cars have radiators and home computers have fans and heat sinks.

If we are really, really generous and assume that our mythical WTC Killing Beam Weapon of Doom™ loses only 1% of the energy that's fed into it to waste heat, then this device that has the power of 30 million Boeing Laser Trucks is basically blasting itself with the strength of three hundred thousand laser trucks every time you pull the trigger.

Mackey described a possible beam weapon with an explosive power source and listed some of the problems that would cause. This beam cannon would likely explode when fired anyway regardless of it's power source.

Well, I was trying to be nice, and only give him one insurmountable problem to work on. The fact that there are several big-time problems with this stupid idea really moves it from improbable to totally impossible. Of course, he'll just ignore this inconvenient fact, and try to change the subject yet again to PNAC, "faster-than-freefall" or some other equally stupid thing, in hopes that we forgot what the thread was about!

 

[Horatius]

Mackey described a possible beam weapon with an explosive power source and listed some of the problems that would cause. This beam cannon would likely explode when fired anyway regardless of it's power source.

Unless you had a very large and efficient radiator. We have engineers for a reason, you know!


I'll leave the issues of deploying and hiding such a radiator in orbit as an exercise for the student. I can't do all the thinking around here!

 

[Bell]

Well, I was trying to be nice, and only give him one insurmountable problem to work on. The fact that there are several big-time problems with this stupid idea really moves it from improbable to totally impossible. Of course, he'll just ignore this inconvenient fact, and try to change the subject yet again to PNAC, "faster-than-freefall" or some other equally stupid thing, in hopes that we forgot what the thread was about!

Now, that's a new tactic never used before by troofers.

"OMG TEH WTC WAS BLOWN UP WITH TERMITES!"
"No it wasn't." *shows proof*
"BUT WHAT ABOUT WTC7?!!!1! SILVERSTEIN AND TEH FDNY PULLED IT!!3!"
"The FDNY 'pulled it' the firefighting/rescue operation."
"AND A MISSLE HIT TEH PENTAGON!!&!"
"There's plane debris all over the Pentagon lawn."
"BUT WHAT ABOUT UA93??% IT WAZ SHOT DOWN!!LOLOL!MAM DO YOU BELIEVE ME LOLOLOL%%!!1!8?"
"It crashed after the passengers tried to take back control."
"STILL DOESN'T ASPLAIN WHY TEH WTC WAS BLOWN UP WITH TERMITES OMFG!!1!4PWN!!$"

 

[Max Photon]

Max Photon says: DEWds! Wake up!

---

DEWds,


When JREF NISTians DEW in the Woods, do they make a sound?

Yes indeed, and boy it sounds like they're straining!


Did it ever occur to you that DEWs represent a cover?


Maaaaaxxx [again, in that annoying, whinny tone], we're lost again.

Please hand-carry some sparks across our inert little synapses.


Very well.

Woodie and Reynolds Wrap put forth a really stupid model.

Then really stupid people stand around - like you guys - and talk about how really stupid the really stupid model is.

With all that really stupid noise in this Den of Dim, any mention of lasers sounds - well - really stupid.

That's the cover.

Indeed, lasers - directed energy weapons - were used on 9/11 to ignite thermite-dusted shock-tube (which in turn linked and ignited planted thermite in the towers to - Class? - that's right - heat-weaken the towers to initiate collapse.

The lasers were aimed from WTC7.

The lasers were fired at peak emotional moments, such as the impact of 175 into WTC2, and the collapse of WTC2.

You can see the flashes on the NE edges of both towers, heavily concentrated at impact floors.

2nd hit - north face cropped
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2oUD1XWmB8


So do you see all the noise covers?


- Jones' THERMITE=CUTTING is cloaking THERMITE=HEAT-WEAKENING

- DEWs are cloaking the fact that lasers were used to initiate thermite-dusted shock-tube.

- The NO PLANE - NO BRAIN crowd are cloaking the phreato-thermatic explosions. (So is the molten aluminum argument.)

- C4 is being used to draw arguments to the core, to cloak the heat-weakening of the perimeter columns using synthetic fires.


There are more, but you get the point.

(Well, probably not.)


Laser Photon

---

 

[PhantomWolf]

- Jones' THERMITE=CUTTING is cloaking THERMITE=HEAT-WEAKENING

- DEWs are cloaking the fact that lasers were used to initiate thermite-dusted shock-tube.

- The NO PLANE - NO BRAIN crowd are cloaking the phreato-thermatic explosions. (So is the molten aluminum argument.)

- C4 is being used to draw arguments to the core, to cloak the heat-weakening of the perimeter columns using synthetic fires.

So what you are saying is that all the Truth Movement but you are Government Disinformationists hiding the real Truth™?

 

[JimBenArm]

---

DEWds,


When JREF NISTians DEW in the Woods, do they make a sound?

Yes indeed, and boy it sounds like they're straining!

More third-grade stuff. How mature!

Did it ever occur to you that DEWs represent a cover?

No, mostly because that idea is asinine.

Maaaaaxxx [again, in that annoying, whinny tone], we're lost again.

Please hand-carry some sparks across our inert little synapses.

Miiiiiiinnnn! Please stop distributing stupidity!

Very well.

Woodie and Reynolds Wrap put forth a really stupid model.

Yeah, right up there with your termites!

Then really stupid people stand around - like you guys - and talk about how really stupid the really stupid model is.

With all that really stupid noise in this Den of Dim, any mention of lasers sounds - well - really stupid.

Oh, so the fact we try to disabuse stupid people of their stupid notions is stupid? Well, I guess we'll quit pointing out how stupid your ideas are. NOT!

That's the cover.

Disinfo. How passe.

Indeed, lasers - directed energy weapons - were used on 9/11 to ignite thermite-dusted shock-tube (which in turn linked and ignited planted thermite in the towers to - Class? - that's right - heat-weaken the towers to initiate collapse.

Yeah, and again I get my cookies from elves in trees.

The lasers were aimed from WTC7.

Too bad they missed.

The lasers were fired at peak emotional moments, such as the impact of 175 into WTC2, and the collapse of WTC2.


You can see the flashes on the NE edges of both towers, heavily concentrated at impact floors.

Only if you're on strong halucenogenics

2nd hit - north face cropped
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2oUD1XWmB8


So do you see all the noise covers?

I see a lot of things. Not things you would like, however.

- Jones' THERMITE=CUTTING is cloaking THERMITE=HEAT-WEAKENING

- DEWs are cloaking the fact that lasers were used to initiate thermite-dusted shock-tube.

- The NO PLANE - NO BRAIN crowd are cloaking the phreato-thermatic explosions. (So is the molten aluminum argument.)

- C4 is being used to draw arguments to the core, to cloak the heat-weakening of the perimeter columns using synthetic fires.

And you are cloaking the fact that none of this nonsense happened.

There are more, but you get the point.

(Well, probably not.)

If there was a point to this, maybe, however it is just drivel, so it doesn't matter.

Laser Photon

---

Mirror Armstrong