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Didja Hear About Iran?

It's unprecedented, sure, but if the count has already been doctored, how is looking at the count going to be any different the second time?

I was commenting more on the fact that public protest had caused them to go back on their original statement, which as far as I can tell is the first time anything like that has happened. It is evidence that they are concerned about the public unrest.
 
This is not an official source, but one of the guys from Fark actually did a good job of breaking down errant information and reports from various sources. I'm posting it here because he's trying to get this information out as widely as he can:

Tatsuma via Fark said:
This seems to be helping quite a few people, so I'll go ahead and repost it in every threads with some adjustments. Sorry, this has reached the level of TL;DR but I really am trying to cram the most relevant information and speculation only. Everything is updated as events unfold, especially the timeline and what will happen in the future.

Suppression of Dissent - The Players

Currently, there are either two or three groups who are suppressing the students on the ground that you'll read about throughout this thread:

1. The Basij
2. Ansar Hizbullah (which I will refer to as Ansar)
3. Lebanese Hizbullah (Unconfirmed but highly probable. Der Spiegel, based on a Voice of America report, says that 5,000 Hizbullah fighters are currently in Iran masquerading as riot police, confirming the independent reports. Many different independent reports and video point that way. Even in the last hours other independent twitter feeds have declared witnessing thugs beating on people while shouting in Arabic; I will refer to them as Hizbullah)

- The Basij are your regular paramilitary organization. They are the armed hand of the clerics. The Basij are a legal group, officially a student union, and are legally under direct orders of the Revolutionary Guard. Their main raison d'être is to quell dissent. They are the ones who go and crack skulls, force people to participate in pro-regime demonstrations, and generally try to stop any demonstrations from even starting. They are located throughout the country, in every mosque, every university, every social club you can think of. They function in a way very similar to the brownshirts.

They were the ones who first started the crackdown after the election, but it wasn't enough. While they are violent and repressive, they are still Persian and attacking fellow citizens. A beating is one thing, mass killings another.

- Another group was working with them, whose members are even more extreme, is Ansar. There is a lot of cross-membership between the Basij and Ansar, though not all are members of the other group and vice-versa. The vast majority of Ansar are Persians (either Basij or ex-military), though a lot of Arab recruits come from Lebanon and train with them under supervision of the Revolutionary Guard. They are not functioning under a legal umbrella, they are considered a vigilante group, but they pledge loyalty directly to the Supreme Leader and most people believe that they are under his control. They are currently helping the Basij to control the riots, but due to the fact that they are Persians and in lower numbers than the Basij, they are not that active.

- The Lebanese Hizbullah is a direct offshoot (and under direct control) of the Iranian Hizbullah (itself under direct control of the Supreme Leader) and cooperates closely with Ansar though Ansar occupies itself only with Iran's domestic policies, while Hizbullah occupies itself only with Iran's foreign policy unless there is a crisis like right now. However, Hizbullah has been called to stop violent riots in Iran in the past.

(the following paragraph includes some speculation based on reports from ground zero) Hizbullah flew in a lot of their members in Iran, most likely a good deal even before the elections in case there were trouble. They are the ones who speak Arabs and are unleashing the biggest level of violence on the Persians so far. Another wave arrived recently and there is chatter that yet another wave of Hizbullah reinforcements are coming in from Lebanon as we speak. According to Iranians on the ground, they are the ones riding motorcycles, beating men women and children indiscriminately and firing live ammunitions at students.

What will happen

Unless the army decides to intervene in the favor of the Council and to stop the early beginnings of the new Revolution, Ansar & Hizbullah members will be the ones doing the brunt of the killing and repression with Basij as a support while also protecting government buildings and try to do crowd control. The police seems to have for the most part disbanded in centers like Tehran according to all reports, including international media. If the police decides to come back, they will focus less on protection and crowd control, so the Basij will start to crack more skulls).

Currently, this is what is happening.


Timeline (updated and revamped!)
note: I built this through both articles and twitter feeds, so I do not claim that this is a 100% factually correct representation of reality, but this is the general narrative.

14th of June - While the previous day had been witness to some protests, they were for the most part peaceful. However, as time grew the protests turned more and more violent. When the first spontaneous riots erupted, the first wave of violence was unleashed. The Iranian Riot Police was called in to support the regular police officers controlling the protests, and shortly after the Basij also took the scene, moving from a passive to active role of repression. The RP concentrated mostly around public buildings and streets while the Basij took position around student groups, especiallly universities.

- As things got more out of hand, more and more Basij troops were called in, as the police started dispersing. The riot police are less inclined (or, rather I should say the Basij are more inclined) to use violence so they retreated and leaving the place to the Basij. The repressive forces concentrated their assault mostly around the main Iranian universities, while the riot police were concentrating on protecting various government buildings such as the Interior Ministry. At least two people had been killed already.

- On the telecommunication front, this is when we started to hear more and more from twitters while videos were being freely updated to youtube (while youtube started to delete the more violent ones a few hours later). This is also the moment where the government realized what was happening, and ordered for the internet, phone lines and cellphones to be cut off, in order to avoid people communicating with the outside world.

late 14th, early 15th of June - This is the second wave of violent repression. At this point, violent riots had spread all over the main cities of Iran. The violence against citizens was not only the fruit of the Basij anymore, but also came from Ansar Hizbullah members. This is the point where firearms started being used. There were reports of a few murders but it was mostly fired in the air or on walls in order to scare away protesters in University dorms. It's also around the same time that the first reports and videos of an important number of non-Persian thugs shouting in Arabic and violently beating people with chains, clubs and electric batons (similar to cattle prods), which led to many speculating that lebanese Hizbullah members were now in Iran. Der Spiegel, through Voice of America, later claimed that 5000 Hizbullah fighters were passing off as Riot Police, validating the claims of many independent sources and twitter feeds.

- Universities have been the hotbed of protests, serving as a hub of anti-government demonstrations and preparations. 120 teachers from the Sharid University resigned in protest over the election results. Perfectly away of this, the Basij, Ansar and possibly Hizbullah members concentrated their attacks on University Dorms all over the country, storming them and beating students, destroying everything, especially computers.

- The end of the second wave came right before the beginning of the current manifestation. Things were getting quieter with only sporadic reports of dissenters being assaulted. Important to note: at this time. the Supreme Leader authorized the plainclothes militias to use live ammunition against the crowd if things were to get out of hands. By the end of the first two waves of protests, hundreds of people had been arrested.

midday, 15th of June - This brings us to the third wave, which just began around 12:30PM for those of us on the East Coast. Plainclothes militia opened fire on civilians protesting peacefully. Possibly up to 2 million protesters took the street. Chaos erupted in the streets, with reports of fighting all over Tehran and spreading over Iran as the news circulated. Pictures of people shot, some to death, finally surfaced and were published in the mainstream media. Violent and murderous repression has started. At least a twenty people had been killed at this by the end of the 15th of June.

- There is a major national crackdown on students, especially those with connections to the outside world going on right now. Students are fighting back in some areas. Telephones are being bugged and everyone twittering and sending videos outside of Iran are being rounded up. ISPs were shut down, government hackers are threatening people who twitter, and some of them have vanished in the last 24 hours.

- Eventually, the people started to fight back. First, they took over and burned down a Basij base, killing its commander. Later, a Basij shot a young man in the face in front of their HQ, at which point a policeman went to confront them. The Basij beat the policeman, at which point students stormed the compound, throwing molotov cocktails, burning it to the ground.

- During the night, the police entered certain neighbourhood to arrest public servants and force them to appear at tomorrow's pro-Ahmadinejad manifestation, but the people went out in the street and forced them out of their neighbourhoods. The Basij have kept on storming dorms. So far the reports are conflicting, but it appears that the death toll could be as high as 40 for the protesters, with two dead on the side of the repressive militias. This is the end of the third wave.

early 16th of June - Supporters of Moussavi have a manifestation planned for 5pm, Tehran time. Roughly the same number or more is expected to attend. People are dressed in black and told to protest silently.

- The pro-Ahmadinejad crowd however are planning a counter-demonstration at the very same place the supporters are supposed to gather at 3pm. Most agree that basically they are simply going to gather for a confrontation. Rumours are that they are taking position in buildings next to the parade and in bunkers to attack. Basij from all over the country are moving to Tehran and supporters are being bused from all over the country. A major showdown is expected to unfold.

- The crackdown on people using telecommunication is as strong as ever. Anyone with a laptop, camera or cellphone is attacked in the street by plainclothes militias. Tehran hotels are under lockdown to prevent the members of the foreign press not yet expulsed from reporting what is happening.

- As for the Iranian Government and different branches, there are rumours that many Army Generals have been arrested for plotting a Coup d'État, but this is still speculation at this point. The Supreme Leader has also called for a 10-day inquiry into the claims of fraud, but it has been widely dismissed as cosmetic. Moussavi and his supporters have rejected this, claiming that they want new elections. Khameini is now using the armed Basij as his own bodyguards, hundreds of them are surround him and his residence to protect from attempted assassinations. Ahmadinejad himself is in Russia right now, for a planned visit, and tries to pretend that everything is good as usual.

early 16th of June - The fourth wave of violence has started, and it is expected to flare up very soon. Currently pro-Moussavi supporters are saying that there are even more people today protesting against the regime, though raw numbers are hard to get. If this is true, it means there are more than 2M protesters in the street right now. They are dressed in black and protesting silently and without violence so far. Other reports that only 250,000 are in the street right now, possibly scared by the Basij and propaganda.

- The Basij, surprisingly, are not attacking the march itself but rather they are assaulting dorms again. It looks like they are using the march as a diversion. In Tehran proper, 2000 Basij are waiting to storm the male dorm, and they are backed by IRG helicopters, which seems to send the message that the IRG has broken from their undeclared neutrality toward tacitely supporting the Regime.

The Revolution lives on.

Demands from the protesters

1. Dismissal of Khamenei for not being a fair leader
2. Dismissal of Ahmadinejad for his illegal acts
3. Temporary appointment of Ayatollah Montazeri as the Supreme Leader
4. Recognition of Mousavi as the President
5. Forming the Cabinet by Mousavi to prepare for revising the Constitution
6. unconditional and immediate release of all political prisoners
7. Dissolution of all organs of repression, public or secret.

Who is Grand Ayatollah Montazeri?

Ayatollah Montazeri is a pro-Democracy, pro-Human Rights Ayatollah who was at one point on the short list of possible successors of Khomeini, but became marginalized as he adopted what was seen as a too pro-Western, pro-Democracy stance.

Since the beginning of the Revolution, he has been one of the fiercest critics of the Regime, and one of the biggest proponents of women and civil rights for ALL Iranians, including much-maligned minorities like the Baha'is. In fact he goes further than the protections afforded to them under Sharia.

He is also a big critic of Ahmadinejad and has been seen for years as the best hope for Iran if he ever was to come to power, something that was unthinkable a mere week ago.

Links

For further information on the Basij, Global Security has a good article about the history of the Basij.

CNN has a good article where eyewitnesses describe the type of violence usually unleashed by the Basij.

Here is another good article from GS again giving more background information on the ruthless Ansar thugs.

BBC profile of Grand Ayatollah Montazeri

important: The Iranian government is looking for dissident twitterers, so if you have an account, change your location and timezone to tehran!

At this point, Iran's government is currently working to block any and all communications going out of Iran, and this includes internet, phone, satellite and cellular. Some people are reporting that in some areas cell phones are being cut off completely, and in other places there have been reports of people with cell phones being stopped and beaten.

Also, if the claims that there are numerous Arab forces sympathetic to the Ayatollah and Ahmadinejad coming into the country and attacking Persians are true, then this situation is growing far more serious than I had already thought (which was quite serious to begin with). What baffled me is that McCain has actually made public statements that he thinks Obama should be more hardline on this issue, which I find to be a troubling statement at the best, wildly irresponsible at worst.If things really are getting that bad right now in Iran, the worst possible move the US could make at this time would be to get involved in any way other than hoping for little bloodshed and a graceful outcome.
 
Montazeri has released a public statement (translation can be found here). Particularly powerful are the following lines:
Ayatollah Montazeri said:
I ask the police and army personals not to “sell their religion”, and beware that receiving orders will not excuse them before god. Recognize the protesting youth as your children. Today censor and cutting telecommunication lines can not hide the truth.

That may possibly be a tinge of opportunism speaking ("can't fight the signal"), but basically telling police and military that "just following orders" isn't going to cut it is a remarkable thing to hear coming from such a high-ranking Iranian cleric.
 
Montazeri has released a public statement (translation can be found here). Particularly powerful are the following lines:

That may possibly be a tinge of opportunism speaking ("can't fight the signal"), but basically telling police and military that "just following orders" isn't going to cut it is a remarkable thing to hear coming from such a high-ranking Iranian cleric.

Indeed it is, and I'm trying to be optimistic about it. Along the lines of 'don't shoot these kids please' kind of optimism.
 
Kids are being shot (though more are being beaten or having their living spaces raided overnight), no doubt about it. There have been a few tweets that have suggested people seeking medical help NOT enter the hospitals, and instead look for the people giving treatments outside the hospitals, because Basiji members are located inside waiting for them. Things are really far more inflamed over there than CNN and some other news agencies have been reporting (though I've heard a few comments that the tone on the news channels is changing). The BBC briefly had its main page in a green color scheme, and a few people speculated it was a subtle show of support for the protesters (they're being called the Green Revolution by a few internet commentators), but it's no longer so and that's just speculation.
 
Iran's latest attempts to stop the revolution.

Thousands rally in Iran; foreign coverage restricted

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- As thousands took to the streets again on Tuesday, Iran's government banned international journalists from covering rallies and blocked access to some online communication tools in the wake of last week's disputed presidential election.

Reporters working for international news outlets, including CNN, could talk about the rallies in their live reports but were not allowed to leave their hotel rooms and offices.

The decision was an apparent reaction to video showing violence at recent demonstrations in support of Mir Hossein Moussavi, who is disputing the results of Friday's presidential election.


I have a feeling this is going to end up being very bloody. As to who will come out on top? I have no idea.
 
Not for nothing, but CNN has been woefully behind the curve with getting this information out. The government has been shooing away journalists and closing communications since Monday afternoon/early evening. I understand why CNN has been slacking-- the staccato of information is coming mostly through social networking sites, which makes confirmation difficult, among other things-- but they and other news agencies are being scooped over and over on this. Very few news agencies have been reporting on the claims that Hizbullah groups are masquerading as police to kick down doors-- someone has stated that this article repeats the claim, but I haven't translated it yet. There are rumors of some people gathering to attempt an overthrow of the government and pleading to army and police to join them, but so far those remain just rumors (similar to the rumors that the army was marching on Tehran yesterday).

Various individuals have stated the following as the current protester demands:

1. Dismissal of Ahmadinejad for his illegal acts
2. Recognition of Mousavi as the President
3. Immediate release of protesters by police (one said 'all political prisoners' but I'm not convinced that's widespread)
4. Possible temporary appointment of Ayatollah Montazeri as the Supreme Leader
 
The BBC are reporting another huge protest gathering:

...The BBC's Jon Leyne in Tehran says it is difficult to verify the numbers attending. Some estimates say between 70,000 and 100,000, others up to 500,000....​

Doesn't seem to be dying down.
 
Doesn't seem to be dying down.

Thursday seems like it could be an interesting day, since they're planning a day or mourning for the people killed so far. Days like that were one of the things that helped to drive the 1979 revolution along, or so I'm told.
 
I'm guessing the guy who said "let's save money when we rig this election by just giving the same results everywhere" is updating his resume and buying train tickets out of the country under the name.........whatever the Iranian equivalent of John Smith is.
 
More rumor:

It seems Grand Ayatollahs Ardebili, Golpaygani, Sanei, and Shirazi are in agreement with Montazeri about the need for a new vote count, and possibly a new election. Khamenei (who is Supreme Leader, head of the Grand Ayatollahs) is the odd one out who agrees on Ahmastolenvote's win. If true, this could very well count against Khamenei being able to retain power.

Again, the army has not yet been called in, but there are reports of police not showing up in Tehran (since the Basij, who are under Revolutionary Guard command, are the ones cracking the most skulls). In other places, though, there are reports that police are looking for or arresting Basiji for civilian attacks, which again if true does not bode well for the established government. If the Revolutionary Guard come into play at this point, that might very well spur the army getting involved as well.
 
Couple things.

I know it's probably come up in the Politics subforum, but one of the things that has people so angry is the fact that results that came in from the election exceeded the 100% (more than the people who lived there) in many places throughout Iran. link

Despite what news sources may be saying, the number of dead in Iran is more than eight, and was so even while the 'official' counts yesterday seemed to be stuck on eight deaths (link). Twitter reports are saying that Basiji are beating, stabbing and shooting protesters to death.

Not all the protests are violent, though. Below is a video of one of the more peaceful settings where some of the protesters are even chatting with the police and thanking them for being present.


For a photo slideshow, here's a tweet with a link: another set of pics, please be careful, may not suitable for everybody: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fhashemi/sets/72157619758530748/show/
 
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Open letter in English and Arabic to Lebanese people to lobby for Lebanon to condemn Ahmadenijad and to try to bring back the 5000 Hezbollah militants that were brought into Iran by the government to fight protesters:

Dear Lebanese friend

I am sure you have seen the awful images circulated on the news and internet, images captured by millions of Iranians and sent out to the world, so at least someone could hear their side of story as well. Images and video shots that are ignored by the government run TV!

I hope you have seen the massive demonstrations in Tehran, people risking their life to come out and demand their constitution right. The right to a fair and free elections.

These people you see in the videos protesting are my borders and sisters, my family , my classmates, my childhood friends, they were born, raised and studied in Iran under the Islamic Republic. They are tired of a government that is policing their thoughts and dictating an ideology. An ideology witch doesn’t even match Islam !

We have heard multiple reports from all over Iran indicating that some of the police force that are hitting and killing peaceful protectors and break peoples cars and personal properties speak arabic, and they don’t even know farsi!

Yesterday it was confirmed that Hezbolah has sent 5000 troops to help Ahmadi nejad take over power in Iran. This troops were sent before the results of election was out! It clearly shows that Hezbollah and Ahmadi Nejad planned to take over Iran with the back up of Khamanei!

My dear Lebanese friend , hitting and killing defenseless people is not humane and defiantly not Islamic. When we heard your Prime Minister Fouad Siniora’s congradulation statment to Ahmadinejad , it felt like being stabbed from the back!

Ahmadi nejad has sure tried to mislead a large group of people with his way of talking, and I admit he is good at this, but please open your eyes and your hearts see for yourself. this traitor is calling the protesters nothing but “dirt and dust” and opens fire in to peaceful protesters. His shameless police force even attached dorm rooms in every city killing defenseless students, and the burning the place down.

I am asking you to please send letters to your government and pressure them to condemn Ahmadinejad actions in Iran. Please write to Hezbolla’s members of parliaments in Lebanon and ask them to call back the 5000 troops. Ahmadi nejad is a criminal , don’t participate in his crimes.

Please help circulate this letter. This is a call for peace and a call for freedom
 
He may have a point. I believe we had a thread here recently with someone asking how to penetrate Iranian internet security. Even though the west may not be behind the protests, they are certainly some of the protester's biggest cheerleaders.

Being a cheerleader is not meddling, it's displaying a preferred outcome. Ahmadinejad would have to be quite delusional to think that people in different countries aren't allowed to have preferred winners. It's no secret that much of Europe wanted Obama to win last November, but they didn't meddle in the process and they didn't meddle in any subsequent disagreements over whether Obama should have won.

Also, the thread you're referencing (if it's what I think it is) refers to establishing private 'proxies' for Iranians attempting to connect to social networking and messaging sites like Facebook and Twitter. No one from the West is penetrating any Iranian networks or security by doing this, they are simply providing a location to communicate through once Iranians have penetrated the Iranian network. Not unlike Canada during the Vietnam War and draft dodgers fleeing across the border for amnesty, the West is simply giving a pathway to data that has already gone out of the Iranian networks. That the media servers Iranians wish to use to get their voices out are located in the West is no fault of the West with regard to these protests.
 
Originally Posted by [B said:
Bill Thompson][/b]
Correct me if I am wrong. Is it true that Akmadeenajob declared victory the moment that the poles closed and the ballots were on paper and required to be counted by hand?


Yes and...

Well, there you go. That is proof that it is divine and you cannot question the will of The Almighty. The protestors can all go home.

Only by a miracle from the Creator of The Universe could the Supreme Ruler and Ahmadinejad had known without counting a single vote that he had won.
 
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Originally Posted by GreNME
Ahmadinejad now blaming the US and the West for the protests.

He may have a point. I believe we had a thread here recently with someone asking how to penetrate Iranian internet security. Even though the west may not be behind the protests, they are certainly some of the protester's biggest cheerleaders.

Oh silly and absurd do you have to be as a nation (as in Iran, not the USA) where your enemy does not have to lift a finger to defeat you?

Basically you fall on your own sword as you bungle simply drawing it from its sheeth and thus splitting your own guts out on the sand.

No, the USA did not do this. A theoacracy where the masses are not fanatically religious is bound to fail.
 
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Out of interest, is there actually any evidence that the election was rigged? Obviously it's a little difficult to get reliable information at the moment, but it does seem that most of those involved in the protests are those with a horse in the race - someone who wants to be president, someone who wants to be Grand Ayatollah, and their supporters, especially students. Now, we may well support the things they claim to want, such as better education, democracy and so on, but that doesn't necessarily mean their claim of vote fixing that kicked all this off is actually true.

So what's the deal? Is there good evidence that the vote actually was fixed? Is this just being used as an excuse to start a revolution? Is it just being exploited by people looking for power? Do we actually have enough information to come to any kind of reliable conclusion?
 

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