Did you hear this?

[billydkid]

Did any of you hear about this story on the Evening News? I sure didn't. You have to ask yourself why.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom_murder

How is this not a "hate crime" and how are these people anything but complete monsters. People who do this sort of thing to other people (all people who do this sort of thing) have forfeited their humanity and do not deserve to exist.

I want to add that somehow, Imus saying something stupid and offensive somehow warrants endless media coverage, but people do something like this, something completely beyond the bounds of humanity and human decency and there is hardly a peep. When people like Al Sharpton and others whine about how awful Imus is, I want to vomit. And even more astonishing and sickening, I wouldn't be surprised to encounter apologists.

 

[Megalodon]

Some people make it really difficult to be against capital punishment...

It would be a hate crime if it was motivated by the racial differences. But unless they admit to that, or unless somebody will testify to having heard them saying racist slurs or planning to do this monstrosity to someone because they were white, I can't see anybody proving it.

However, I think that the 46 counts they're being charged with will keep them off the street one way or another.

As for the media blackout, I am of divided opinion. I think it's the right thing to do, since there is nothing to be gained with the rehashing of the case, and the seige of the families by reporters. However, I'm quite sure that this was done for the wrong reasons, and that a racial reversal would have the case plastered all over the 24-hour news stations.

What amazes me is the capability of human beings to suprise me. Not that it wasn't done before, or that it won't be done again, but it always suprises me when people do such things to other people.

I guess I'm not cynical enough...

 

[Darth Rotor]

Did any of you hear about this story on the Evening News? I sure didn't. You have to ask yourself why.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channon_Christian_and_Christopher_Newsom_murder

How is this not a "hate crime" and how are these people anything but complete monsters. People who do this sort of thing to other people (all people who do this sort of thing) have forfeited their humanity and do not deserve to exist.

I want to add that somehow, Imus saying something stupid and offensive somehow warrants endless media coverage, but people do something like this, something completely beyond the bounds of humanity and human decency and there is hardly a peep. When people like Al Sharpton and others whine about how awful Imus is, I want to vomit. And even more astonishing and sickening, I wouldn't be surprised to encounter apologists.

Al Sharpton makes no political mileage by discussing the crimes of young black punks. So, he makes no comment. Likewise Jesse J.

Why the rest of the media choose to cover the kidnapping of suburban teenage girls and ignore a crime of this magnitude? Fear of being called anti black, perhaps, or maybe even the average new editor can't read this story without an antacid.

DR

 

[billydkid]

Some people make it really difficult to be against capital punishment...

It would be a hate crime if it was motivated by the racial differences. But unless they admit to that, or unless somebody will testify to having heard them saying racist slurs or planning to do this monstrosity to someone because they were white, I can't see anybody proving it.

However, I think that the 46 counts they're being charged with will keep them off the street one way or another.

As for the media blackout, I am of divided opinion. I think it's the right thing to do, since there is nothing to be gained with the rehashing of the case, and the seige of the families by reporters. However, I'm quite sure that this was done for the wrong reasons, and that a racial reversal would have the case plastered all over the 24-hour news stations.

What amazes me is the capability of human beings to suprise me. Not that it wasn't done before, or that it won't be done again, but it always suprises me when people do such things to other people.

I guess I'm not cynical enough...

Well, I would have to ask you - had this crime been perpetrated by a group of white people against a black couple - would there be even any debate as to whether or not it is a hate crime? I am deeply against this whole mentality that brings us a notion like "hate crime", but if it's going to a principle on which you base your jurisprudence, at least be consistent. If a white person commits a violent act against a minority it is presumed it was motivated by "hate". But when a minority commits a similar crime against a white person they have the benefit of the doubt - that the act is that lesser category, a mere crime, as opposed the even worse (for some reason) category of a "hate crime".

 

[Ian Osborne]

Snopes...

As others have stated, it would only be a hate crime if it was racially motivated. I hope those animals spend the rest of their miserable lives in jail, though.

 

[Ziggurat]

I am deeply against this whole mentality that brings us a notion like "hate crime", but if it's going to a principle on which you base your jurisprudence, at least be consistent.

It's worth noting that hate crime legislation largely evolved in the wake of southern lynchings where state laws against murder were being not only flagrantly violated, but more importantly, going deliberately unenforced. The federal government is powerless to punish people for violations of state law, and so could do nothing directly to remedy the states' failure to enforce its own laws. Hate crimes were created as a legal loophole around this separation of powers, by creating a "new" crime that the federal government could enforce independent of the actions of the state. I'm not sure there was any better remedy available at the time, but hate crime laws were a kludge from the start. And they've have basically outlasted their original purpose.

 

[LawnOven]

Billy... did you get a forward of that email which is now featured on snopes...?

 

[BPSCG]

What difference does it make if it was a hate crime or not? Is there anyone who thinks these monsters shouldn't be locked up for the rest of their lives, or, if you're a death penalty advocate, executed? Is there anyone who thinks that lack of racial hatred should be a mitigating factor in their favor?

"Why did you do it?"
"Because we like rape, torture, and murder."
"Did you pick them because they were white?"
"Nah - had nothing to do with it."
"Oh, well, that's not so bad, then."

ETA: Ziggurat, your background on the original purpose of hate crimes legislation was enlightening.

 

[slingblade]

What difference does it make if it was a hate crime or not? Is there anyone who thinks these monsters shouldn't be locked up for the rest of their lives, or, if you're a death penalty advocate, executed? Is there anyone who thinks that lack of racial hatred should be a mitigating factor in their favor?

Absolutely not. In their cases, I'd even be in favor of the death penalty, and I'm rarely in favor of that.

ETA: Ziggurat, your background on the original purpose of hate crimes legislation was enlightening.

Oh, yes, I agree. That is extremely helpful to know. Thanks!

 

[billydkid]

Billy... did you get a forward of that email which is now featured on snopes...?

No, but I did get an email describing the crime so I went on line to investigate its validity.

 

[billydkid]

It's worth noting that hate crime legislation largely evolved in the wake of southern lynchings where state laws against murder were being not only flagrantly violated, but more importantly, going deliberately unenforced. The federal government is powerless to punish people for violations of state law, and so could do nothing directly to remedy the states' failure to enforce its own laws. Hate crimes were created as a legal loophole around this separation of powers, by creating a "new" crime that the federal government could enforce independent of the actions of the state. I'm not sure there was any better remedy available at the time, but hate crime laws were a kludge from the start. And they've have basically outlasted their original purpose.

I didn't know the origin of the idea of hate crimes. I only heard about it fairly recently with legislative bodies passing hate crime legislation.

 

[Ian Osborne]

What difference does it make if it was a hate crime or not? Is there anyone who thinks these monsters shouldn't be locked up for the rest of their lives, or, if you're a death penalty advocate, executed? Is there anyone who thinks that lack of racial hatred should be a mitigating factor in their favor?

Generally speaking, it's right that a hate motive should be an aggravating factor, though in this case you're right, the point is somewhat moot.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

While I am against the concept of "hate crime", I absolutely agree that this is another example of media hypocrisy.

However you all can help. Simply send an E-mail to several news organizations demanding that they give this story air-time, especially Fox news. If enough people E-mail them then they will surely give this story airtime. When people see a problem like this and band together to demand that news outlets cover a story then they will almost always do it. Remember the Paula Zahn incident where they had a panel of Christians and no Atheist discussing Atheism? Then they got numerous angry letters and then decided to have Richard Dawkins as a guest? Same principle.

Send an E-mail to CNN, ABC, NBC and Fox.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Dustin, did you read the Snopes link I posted earlier?

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Dustin, did you read the Snopes link I posted earlier?

Yes, However can we be sure that it wasn't racially motivated? The Media has jumped on the "hate crime" band wagon in other cases before a motive was even established. Yet this case gets ignored? I think E-mailing the news outlets would benefit a lot.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Dustin, did you read the Snopes link I posted earlier?

Snopes conveniently ignores the recent Duke Case as "cases attracting national attention" in their analysis.

Selective analysis, though the general emphasis on the multiplicity of factors and sensation is a point well made.

DR

 

[Ian Osborne]

Yes, However can we be sure that it wasn't racially motivated? The Media has jumped on the "hate crime" band wagon in other cases before a motive was even established. Yet this case gets ignored? I think E-mailing the news outlets would benefit a lot.

So you want to harangue the press into jumping on the hate crime bandwagon in this case too before a motive is even established?

 

[Beerina]

How is this not a "hate crime" and how are these people anything but complete monsters.

Remeber, it's not as bad to rape, torture, including severing the man's penis, then murder them, if it wasn't done with racial hatred in mind, so they should get a lighter sentence than if they had racial hatred in their mind.

Or so the theories of buffoons go.

 

[This Guy]

This will appear to be troll baiting I suppose, but it's a question that I'd like to throw out and get some opinions on. Unfortunately, I have to leave for work and can't elaborate on the topic as much as I would like. My elaboration would be aimed mostly at showing that the questions I ask below are questions with answers that must, I think, consider MANY different things. The questions aren't intended to incite, and certainly are not based on, hate. The questions are intended to bring out an aspect of the issues involved that I have been trying to get a grip on for awhile, and am having problems with. I hope that you enlightened folks will help me out here, and not assume the worst on my part.

Where were the riots?

If the races were reversed would there have been riots? (in your opinion would the odds be small or large that riots would have happened)

Why? (and that's the big question IMHO, and the one that my contemplations have yet to provide a suitable answer to)

Debated starting a new thread on this, but for now maybe this will do.

Thanks

 

[slingblade]

As best as I can recall, haven't most of the cases of "race riots" been sparked by the actions or inactions of the police? Not incited simply by white-on-black crime? If that's your question, I mean. It was a little obscure.