Did Jon-Benet Ramsay's brother kill her?

Ampulla of Vater said:
This whole idea of one getting cancer because of lies (or past acts or abuse, etc.) is deliverance ministry BS. Though this commenter does not explicitly link it as cause and effect, there is a hint of it in the comment. This is revealing of the type of person who authored it and their loose grasp of reality.

What I find ironic is that the same social media that hurts the wrongly accused by rampantly spreading words and thoughts can also save them in the same manner.
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Could you give an example. I know there was a recent NPR series, but that was professional journalists with the resources of a large broadcasting organisation (pre-Trump) to pump prime.

I would like this to be true, but I find the trolling / haters / cyberbullies the dominant feature. These are people who feel it is their responsibility to punish someone who they feel has literally got away with murder. A lynch mob mentality.

I would like to post a reference to recent psychology research on this but I am currently yellow carded for having done so in reference to another case.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
Recently an anonymous commenter elsewhere wrote, "cancer is a terrible death, and rarely would I ever say someone deserved to die from it. in the case of Patsy Ramsey, her non stop lies, her bull about an "intruder" show clearly that either she was involved in the murder of JonBenet or she covered up for the one responsible. cancer has taken the murderer of JonBenet, all it did was save the executioner a job. and she thoroughly deserved her fate."

I am putting this comment into the thread to serve as an example of what people who are suspected of a crime experience. If there were insuperable evidence against Patsy, she would have been charged and convicted, but there simply was not. To the degree that people think the same things about Burke Ramsey because of the CBS program last September, that program did this case a disservice.
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I agree with Chris Halkides. There is a quote in that Ramsey Death of Innocence book, which I now can't find, where John Ramsey mentions a defective police department like the Boulder Police Department, and a rampant internet gossip forums being dangerous to innocent people.

There is a poster on that Topix forum called 'one who has solved the case' who keeps repeating a theory without facts that JonBenet fell down the spiral staircase in an accident and then John staged the crime scene, and Patsy wrote the ransom note. It's dangerous nonsense because some people believe it. it could be Fleet White's excuse for getting away with murder.

Somebody else on that forum has said that the BPD refuses to do any more DNA tests in the Ramsey case, like testing the Boulder cop Trujillo, because it costs too much money. That sounds like a pathetic excuse to me, but I wouldn't put it past the BPD.
 
Planigale said:
Could you give an example. I know there was a recent NPR series, but that was professional journalists with the resources of a large broadcasting organisation (pre-Trump) to pump prime.

I would like this to be true, but I find the trolling / haters / cyberbullies the dominant feature. These are people who feel it is their responsibility to punish someone who they feel has literally got away with murder. A lynch mob mentality.

I would like to post a reference to recent psychology research on this but I am currently yellow carded for having done so in reference to another case.
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Don't you think media and social media have helped the WM3, Knox, Ryan Ferguson, etc.? Look at what it is doing for Adnan Syed - that murderer might actually get out of jail because of the blind followers accumulated by his pseudo-lawyer friend.

Of course the downside is the haters and trolls, but there can be an upside to it all too.
 
A retrospective DNA analysis of homicide cases

Nurit B et al., Forensic Science International: Genetics 5 (2011) 532–537. "Evaluating the prevalence of DNA mixtures found in fingernail samples from victims and suspects in homicide cases" link to abstract

"Thus, this distinctive group of homicide victims was found to express both elevated frequency of DNA mixtures together with highly informative value of the secondary foreign profiles, as compared to other studied populations. These findings support an important aspect for the criminal investigation in murder cases, where a struggle may have ensued and the identification of an additional profile found in a mixture from a fingernail sample may point to a possible perpetrator of the crime."

This quote is from the abstract.
 
I still think the JonBenet police investigation was bad police work by rookie detectives. The Boulder Police department is a relatively small police department. They had never dealt with a case like that before. Fleet and Priscilla White are getting away with it because they are able to con the American public into a belief that JonBenet accidentally fell down the spiral staircase, and then John supposedly staged the crime scene, and then Patsy was supposed to have written the ransom note. I suspect Fleet is being protected by Lockheed Martin. Fleet and Priscilla should be investigated with regard to the Madeleine McCann abduction in Portugal.

It's not just me who thinks this either:

www.crimefeed.com/2016/09/24701

“I had just retired from the CSPD when this crime occurred in Boulder, Colorado. I was approached and consulted with well after the event by the Boulder Police Department, so I am quite familiar with facts not known to the public. In my opinion, gross deficiencies occurred during the initial stages of this investigation by the Boulder Police Department. These deficiencies were so great they produced fatal errors and preclude any possibility of this matter ever being presented in court. Murder cases are like a spinning top on a table: One should admire it first and study it carefully before proceeding. Touch it too soon, and it goes off the table. And you never get it back. That little girl remains in her grave, and no one will pay for it.”
– Lt. Joe Kenda
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LTC8K6 said:
You should not be so definite about something that you cannot even get within a mile of proving...
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if 'fleet white' is some sort of code for an internet poster using the name 'henri mcphee', your statement would be incorrect.
 
That Topix JonBenet Ramsey forum has now become a farce. It now consists mainly of postings by Brother Moon who posts about a hundred times a day with made up threads and a different alias each time. He is a silly 'Patsy did it' person. All the old sensible 'Fleet and Priscilla White did it' posters have now gone, or their postings have been vanished. Even Jameson had a thread pulled the other day for discussing the DNA in the case.

The problem with all this is that there is now no longer any useful or pointed criticism of the Boulder Police Department, or the FBI, or Lockheed Martin, or the Californian police, on any forum. Just nine year old Burke gets publicly accused and the court of public opinion is ill-informed. The media is not much help.
 
Henri McPhee said:
That Topix Jon Benet Ramsey forum has now become a farce. It now consists mainly of postings by Brother Moon HP who posts about a hundred times a day with made up threads and a different alias each time.He is a silly 'Patsy did it' person. All the old sensible 'Fleet and Priscilla White did it' posters have now gone, or their postings have been vanished. Even Jameson had a thread pulled the other day for discussing the DNA in the case.

The problem with all this is that there is now no longer any useful or pointed criticism of the Boulder Police Department, or the FBI, or Lockheed Martin, or the Californian police, on any forum. Just nine year old Burke gets publicly accused and the court of public opinion is ill-informed. The media is not much help.
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FIFY update for this forum.

And you're none at all.
 
There is going to be a documentary about the JonBenet Ramsey case on a trucrime channel on British TV tonight Saturday at 9pm, which I think is CBS, and I intend to watch it.
 
I saw that Ramsey case documentary yesterday which was a repeat. Paula Woodward said that the FBI and the Boulder police just came to a conclusion without following the evidence, and that the beauty pageant videos were very damaging, and eight out of ten Americans think Patsy is guilty. Bill Wise from the Boulder DA's office talked sense.

That Ron Walker of the FBI is an idiot. He started off by saying that the murder was precipitated by her appearance in pageants which opened a Pandora's box of pedophiles. Then he said Patsy and John were detached at the crime scene which was supposed to be suspicious. I don't think he has ever had a daughter murdered. That's not firm evidence. Then he said a blanket covered the body which in ninety nine percent of cases means the family is involved. That's not firm evidence either. Then another FBI profiler said it must have been done by somebody familiar with the house, and then the FBI psychiatrist Steven Pitt started talking a load of rubbish.

It's rather like now where the FBI have come to a conclusion about Russiagate without following the evidence, and about the child sex rings in high paces with regard to Pizzagate, and the possible connection to the Madeleine McCann abduction. It's a poor investigation.

The FBI should have properly and thoroughly investigated Fleet White. Detective Steve Ainsworth should have been the senior officer in charge of the Ramsey case investigation instead of him being taken off of the case. The media affected the investigation.
 
the compromise position in the comments section

Disappointing that so many people in the comments section have gone for the middle-ground position, that Burke killed her and the parents helped cover it up. Not much useful in the article, based on a quick read.
 
Henri McPhee said:
...Then he said Patsy and John were detached at the crime scene which was supposed to be suspicious. I don't think he has ever had a daughter murdered. That's not firm evidence.
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I get frustrated and annoyed when I see cops continually repeating this falsehood that a family member's behaviour is somehow suspicious because it doesn't conform to some arbitrary standard (usually the cops' own expectations) of how the person should behave.

Time and again we see the Police base their investigation (in part) on that false premise; time and again we see prosecutors use it as evidence in Courts of Law, and time and again we see these suspects rail-roaded and falsely convicted (Arthur Allan Thomas, Lindy Chamberlain et al)

People are individuals; each person grieves in their own way. No-one knows how they will react to the trauma of suddenly losing someone they are close to and that they cared about until it actually happens to them. How people grieve is of no consequence to, and is not an indicator of, guilt or involvement, and should be prohibited from being entered in evidence on the basis that will be prejudicial to the jury.
 
smartcooky said:
I get frustrated and annoyed when I see cops continually repeating this falsehood that a family member's behaviour is somehow suspicious because it doesn't conform to some arbitrary standard (usually the cops' own expectations) of how the person should behave.

Time and again we see the Police base their investigation (in part) on that false premise; time and again we see prosecutors use it as evidence in Courts of Law, and time and again we see these suspects rail-roaded and falsely convicted (Arthur Allan Thomas, Lindy Chamberlain et al)

People are individuals; each person grieves in their own way. No-one knows how they will react to the trauma of suddenly losing someone they are close to and that they cared about until it actually happens to them. How people grieve is of no consequence to, and is not an indicator of, guilt or involvement, and should be prohibited from being entered in evidence on the basis that will be prejudicial to the jury.
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Arthur was always suggesting new places to look for the bodies. Len Demmler watched from horse back the searching endeavours for his victims. Lindy was dignified, The Ramseys in a diabollical position, logistically unclearable suspects. No reaction could work for all, always the case when fingers are pointed.
This looks like a murder by pedophile, especially when considering the kinks.
 
Samson said:
Arthur was always suggesting new places to look for the bodies.
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And this is a very unwise thing to do; you will end up in a Catch-22 situation. If you give the Police, say 10 possible locations, and none of them turns out to be right, they will accuse you of trying to misdirect them. If one of them turns out to be right, they will say that you knew where the bodies were so you must be guilty.

The best thing to do if you are a suspect is say and do nothing.

Many years ago, I was questioned about an assault on my ex-girlfriend (I had a rock solid alibi; it happened in Christchurch and was in Australia at the time).

The Police came to my work place and wanted me to accompany them to the Police station.They didn't tell me why, and I know my rights so I said no. One of the two cops said something like "being uncooperative won't help you". I said, something like "I know my rights. If you want me to come with you, you will have to arrest me. Are you arresting me?". They didn't answer immediately, but then the other cop said something like "Why not. If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" and I remember exactly what I said next. I laughed and said "I have three words for you... Arthur, Allan, Thomas" . I could see the pair of them were not happy with that response, so I quickly said words to the effect that "If you want to interview me, I am happy for you to do so at my home, with my solicitor present". With that, they left and later we arranged the interview over the phone.

Once they realised that my alibi was sound they lost interest in me.

My advice to anyone who gets involved as a suspect or a person of interest with the Police is that

1. You do not have to answer any of their questions
2. You do not have to go with them unless they arrest you
 
smartcooky said:
And this is a very unwise thing to do; you will end up in a Catch-22 situation. If you give the Police, say 10 possible locations, and none of them turns out to be right, they will accuse you of trying to misdirect them. If one of them turns out to be right, they will say that you knew where the bodies were so you must be guilty.

The best thing to do if you are a suspect is say and do nothing.

Many years ago, I was questioned about an assault on my ex-girlfriend (I had a rock solid alibi; it happened in Christchurch and was in Australia at the time).

The Police came to my work place and wanted me to accompany them to the Police station.They didn't tell me why, and I know my rights so I said no. One of the two cops said something like "being uncooperative won't help you". I said, something like "I know my rights. If you want me to come with you, you will have to arrest me. Are you arresting me?". They didn't answer immediately, but then the other cop said something like "Why not. If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear" and I remember exactly what I said next. I laughed and said "I have three words for you... Arthur, Allan, Thomas" . I could see the pair of them were not happy with that response, so I quickly said words to the effect that "If you want to interview me, I am happy for you to do so at my home, with my solicitor present". With that, they left and later we arranged the interview over the phone.

Once they realised that my alibi was sound they lost interest in me.

My advice to anyone who gets involved as a suspect or a person of interest with the Police is that

1. You do not have to answer any of their questions
2. You do not have to go with them unless they arrest you
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The trade off for many people might be living with the uncertainty and anxiety that continues, rather than tidying the matter up straight away.

It is hard to imagine the living hell the Ramseys endured and continue to in the case of Jon Benet. Good luck to the son suing CBS.
 
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