Did Jon-Benet Ramsay's brother kill her?

I still think the JonBenet Ramsey case was a poor investigation and that leads and suspects were disregarded. It could have been another gross miscarriage of justice case.
 
I honestly think Fleet White from Colorado did it, and he was a prime suspect with Santa Bill and Chris Wolf in the initial investigation.
 
Henri McPhee said:
Fleet and Priscilla White have nothing to fear if they are innocent.
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Nor do you!

How would you feel if there were public attempts to implicate you in a murder? Would you so blithely suggest that it is perfectly reasonable and you have no problem with such accusations, given you are innocent (assuming you ARE innocent)?
 
Henri McPhee said:
Fleet and Priscilla White have nothing to fear if they are innocent.
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You must be talking about a different Universe and not this one. The bottom line is that innocent people have suffered disastrous and sometimes fatal effects from false accusations.
 
Henri McPhee said:
Fleet and Priscilla White have nothing to fear if they are innocent.
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You sound like the police officer who tells the person in his interrogation room, "if you're innocent, you don't need a lawyer". You're both obviously wrong and any person under arrest to believes that tall tale is one step closer to a conviction.
 
Henri McPhee said:
CBS should never have accused JonBenet's brother Burke of doing it without facts and evidence to back it up.
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On this case I'm undecided though much points towards the direction that no outsider was present. Sloppy initial investigation sabotaged the process and the murderer/s escaped justice. There's pretty much nothing to be done - so at least partially I agree: it is not fruitful to present a strong individual suspicion that cannot be proven. It's unfair to persons involved - though of course in general and open minded way various theories can be presented in media.

But. I find your way of debating totally irrational and misleading. You are not really participating in discussion but obsessively spreading an irrational and unshakeable personal conviction. This does amount to a sabotage of logical and open minded debate. Am sorry but I really have to block you if possible on this site.
 
llwyd said:
On this case I'm undecided though much points towards the direction that no outsider was present. Sloppy initial investigation sabotaged the process and the murderer/s escaped justice. There's pretty much nothing to be done - so at least partially I agree: it is not fruitful to present a strong individual suspicion that cannot be proven. It's unfair to persons involved - though of course in general and open minded way various theories can be presented in media.

But. I find your way of debating totally irrational and misleading. You are not really participating in discussion but obsessively spreading an irrational and unshakeable personal conviction. This does amount to a sabotage of logical and open minded debate. Am sorry but I really have to block you if possible on this site.
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It's not an irrational and unshakeable personal conviction. What I'm saying is that the media, like CBS or Fox News, and internet posters should never accuse John, Patsy or Burke, or say that no outsider was present, without evidence and facts to back it up, and not just with opinions and beliefs. That's libel. There is hard evidence that Fleet, and even Priscilla White, were involved which was never properly or thoroughly investigated. Just because the Whites are good at getting away with murder does not make them innocent. It's not just me who thinks this either. The Boulder DA office and Detective Steve Ainsworth were of the same opinion after the murder.

From the Steve Thomas deposition with Lin Wood:

19 Q. Now, you do know that after the
20 Boulder Police Department had investigated
21 Mr. Wolf, that the district attorney's office
22 was still actively investigating an intruder
23 theory and that Fleet White, Bill McReynolds
24 and Chris Wolf were on the top of their
25 suspect list. You do know that to be true,

116

1 don't you, sir?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And that would have been in 1998?
4 A. As to when the DA's office was
5 conducting this investigation?
6 Q. Yes.
7 A. They were doing a lot of things
8 we were entirely unaware of. But if you're
9 telling me they were doing that in 1998, I
10 won't contest it.
11 Q. Well, what you do know is that
12 the Boulder Police Department investigated
13 Chris Wolf as a suspect and you know that
14 even after the Boulder Police Department had
15 investigated him that the Boulder district
16 attorney's office was still investigating
17 Chris Wolf as a suspect and that he was,
18 along with Fleet White and Bill McReynolds,
19 on the top of the DA's list?
20 MR. DIAMOND: Just for
21 clarification, after the Boulder Police
22 Department cleared him?
23 MR. WOOD: Yeah.
24 A. No, I don't know that time line.
25 Certainly the DA investigators would but there

117

1 was a period in here where there -- this was
2 not a hand-in- glove fit and there was not a
3 lot of communication being shared.
4 Q. (BY MR. WOOD) Timing aside, we
5 can get clear agreement that Chris Wolf was
6 from your knowledge not only a suspect for
7 the Boulder Police Department, but at the top
8 of the list, along with McReynolds and Fleet
9 White, of the suspect list of the Boulder
10 district attorney's office in its
11 investigation, true?
12 A. Certainly seemed to be.
13 Q. And that was your understanding
14 and knowledge, right?
15 A. That they were still interested in
16 those parties, yes.
17 Q. That Mr. Wolf was on the top of
18 their suspect list, along with McReynolds and
19 Fleet White?
20 A. That was my impression.
21 Q. And knowledge, I mean not just
22 impression, you knew that as being a fact,
23 didn't you?
24 A. Yeah, they were still investigating
25 those three individuals.
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Henri McPhee said:
It's not an irrational and unshakeable personal conviction. What I'm saying is that the media, like CBS or Fox News, and internet posters should never accuse John, Patsy or Burke, or say that no outsider was present, without evidence and facts to back it up, and not just with opinions and beliefs. That's libel. There is hard evidence that Fleet, and even Priscilla White, were involved which was never properly or thoroughly investigated. Just because the Whites are good at getting away with murder does not make them innocent. It's not just me who thinks this either. The Boulder DA office and Detective Steve Ainsworth were of the same opinion after the murder.

From the Steve Thomas deposition with Lin Wood:
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Nothing there is "hard evidence that Fleet, and even Priscilla White, were involved..."

Sorry, Henri, but either man up with hard evidence or clam up. And I am not looking for miles and miles of quotes from elsewhere. Just tell us in 50 words or less what hard evidence exists.
 
This is what homicide detective Lou Smit said about the Burke matter in his deposition in 2002. CBS should read this:

Q. Based on your involvement, your knowledge of the case in its entirety, the evidence, has Burke Ramsey, Jon Benet's brother, ever been under the umbrella of suspicion in this case?

A. No.

Q. Is there any evidence that would even remotely suggest that Burke Ramsey was involved in the murder or death of his sister?

A. No. There is none.

Q. The Ramsey path or the Ramsey theory, as you earlier told me, only included either John or Patsy or both; right?

A. Yes.

Q. Not Burke?

A. Yes.
 
Ampulla of Vater said:
Nothing there is "hard evidence that Fleet, and even Priscilla White, were involved..."

Sorry, Henri, but either man up with hard evidence or clam up. And I am not looking for miles and miles of quotes from elsewhere. Just tell us in 50 words or less what hard evidence exists.
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You don't disregard leads and suspects, or just assume a Ramsey did it. Fleet White is a person of interest even if the idle and incompetent Boulder Police Department and FBI don't think so. I'm not the only person who thinks that either. Fleet White has been described as Rat White in the past.

Detective Lou Smit had a bit to say abut this matter during his 2002 deposition:

"This case really boils down to two things: It is either going to be the parents or it is going to be an intruder. And it really is quite that simple. Even though it is a complex case, it boils down to these two things. If there is evidence of an intruder, then it is not the parents. For about the past, actually, five years now, I have looked at every scrap of information made available to me and have analyzed this case.

I see clues pointing at an intruder, and that is the way the case tells me to go. Past experience has shown me, normally, the crime is what it seems to be. Don't make it complicated. This rule has guided me through many homicides. Almost every homicide I ever have worked, this is a rule that I followed, and I was told this by many experienced detectives: Don't make it complicated. And it has rarely been wrong.

The Ramsey case initially is portrayed as a kidnapping and a murder. A ransom note was left and a little girl was murdered. On its face, kidnapping and murder. Perhaps it is a kidnapping and a murder. And there is evidence to support this.

What a detective always looks at first when he looks at a case is motive. What is the motive for someone to kill someone else? You try to establish a motive. That is so important in a case involving homicide.

Every case I have worked, there has been a motive. In this case, there is also a motive. But what would be the motive for the parents to kill their child?

I can find no motive for the parents to kill their child. I can find no motive. If there is no motive, then it points strongly at an intruder. It is that simple. It gives you at least a clue of which direction to go.

You have to establish motive. What would be the motive for the parents. Just pulling a motive out of the air such as bed-wetting, saying that the parents killed their child because of bed-wetting, and stating it as a fact without substantiation is not evidence. It is only a guess.

Why would normal, loving parents, with no history of abuse or psychological problems brutally murder their daughter on Christmas night, one of the happiest days of the year for a child?

I can find no motive. That in itself is a clue -- and I am going to talk a lot about clues -- that we should look at the possibility of an intruder. First of all, there is no history of prior criminal conduct on the part of the parents. Either John or Patsy. None. Zero.

I don't think I have ever even seen a traffic ticket. These people are not criminals. And there is no evidence that they act or think like criminals. And this is very important. Whoever killed JonBenet Ramsey thinks and acts like a criminal. And I am going to show that to you in how this person does think.

First of all, there is no bad character traits for either John or Patsy. None. There is a long history of loving family relationships. They are respected in their community. They are active in church and school activities.

This in itself does not mean that they could not have done it. However, it is a strong indication of their character and stability.

This is the most investigated family in the world today. If there were any real flaws, someone would have come up with something by now. That has not happened."
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Personally, I think the JonBenet murder could be connected to the abduction of Madeleine McCann in Portugal with the same people involved and the same police inaction.
 
BStrong said:
Who cares?
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People are posting in this thread giving their opinion about the murder and who might or might not have done it. So I'd say, anyone interested in this thread.

If you're not interested, what's the point in coming into it and posting snark?
 
Rolfe said:
People are posting in this thread giving their opinion about the murder and who might or might not have done it. So I'd say, anyone interested in this thread.

If you're not interested, what's the point in coming into it and posting snark?
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Well, yes to your general point. But in the context of #935, I don't really care about Henri's posts.
 
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