Did Epstein run a World Satanic Ring?

[Vixen]

And this is why you continue to fail.

What we're dealing with here is an actual conspiracy made from a number of smaller conspiracies involving financial institutions, wealthy individuals, US, UK, and various other government oversight agencies, the FBI, and DoJ. We know these conspiracies are real because people who worked in these various agencies and bureaus have come forward to talk about the investigations, and how they would be dropped somewhere up the chain of management.

Nobody here disputes this.

And yet these facts are not enough for people like you. I'm a reasonable man, and I'm a patriotic American (although not so much these days). I am troubled, disgusted, and angry that my government has not been doing it's job across multiple agencies for no other reason than a few of Epstein's clients are politically connected, and there could be vast repercussions in the financial world if investigations advanced beyond a certain point, and or if indictments, and prosecutions were initiated. Either EVERYONE IS EQUAL UNDER THE LAW, OR THEY ARE NOT. In the United States, our legal system only works if the citizens trust that it is applied fairly. But people like you need this to be about sex, spies, and Satanic cults. Based on your track record here this is because you live in a fantasy world where shadowy groups control everything from access to the royal family to sinking a ferry. You ignore the actual conspiracies, and blow smoke about tabloid sideshows.

This scandal SHOULD BE an opportunity to reevaluate how sex crimes are handled by the FBI and DoJ. This should be a time when FBI and DoJ management is called on the carpet for their cowardice, incompetence, and negligence. I want those responsible to be compelled to defend their actions or inactions in front of Congress. I want careers ended, policies amended, or discarded. I want an FBI that goes just as hard at the rich and powerful as they do street thugs. But right now, the guy whose name appears the most in the current batch of Epstein files is also the President of the United States. A man who wears his corruption on his sleeve. The same man who was in the Oval Office when Epstein was "left unattended" in a federal jail cell.

And people like you who blow smoke about Satanic cults, and other nonsense are only HELPING obscure the truth.

The thread title is a topic for debate, hence the question mark. I fully get that few know how to debate these days. But let's face it, Virginia Giuffre's allegations have never been properly investigated. This includes claims of baby farms, torture, trafficking and disappearance of minors. Given the remote locations these incidents are said to have taken place, with only one person in prison - and Trump wishes her well - you can begin to understand why some believe there is a cult-connected conspiracy to hide it. The fact of Andrew systematically passing on state secrets and sensitive information promptly to Epstein, an unofficial foreign national, certainly does point to Andrew being a spy and traitor in a not dissimilar manner to Philby, MacLean and the so-called Cambridge mob. But according to you we are not allowed to debate and should just stick to small talk about the garden and the weather.

 

[Thermal]

...Given the remote locations these incidents are said to have taken place, with only one person in prison - and Trump wishes her well - you can begin to understand why some believe there is a cult-connected conspiracy to hide it...

Actually, I don't think anyone else really pulls that cult thingy out of thin air, no.

 

[zooterkin]

The thread title is a topic for debate, hence the question mark. I fully get that few know how to debate these days. But let's face it, Virginia Giuffre's allegations have never been properly investigated. This includes claims of baby farms, torture, trafficking and disappearance of minors. Given the remote locations these incidents are said to have taken place, with only one person in prison - and Trump wishes her well - you can begin to understand why some believe there is a cult-connected conspiracy to hide it. The fact of Andrew systematically passing on state secrets and sensitive information promptly to Epstein, an unofficial foreign national, certainly does point to Andrew being a spy and traitor in a not dissimilar manner to Philby, MacLean and the so-called Cambridge mob. But according to you we are not allowed to debate and should just stick to small talk about the garden and the weather.

Sorry, could you highlight the bit in that which is relevant to the thread topic? You know, the Satanic bit? Are you suggesting that the Cambridge 5 were devil worshippers?

 

[ferd burfle]

The thread title is a topic for debate, hence the question mark . I fully get that few know how to debate these days. But let's face it, Virginia Giuffre's allegations have never been properly investigated. This includes claims of baby farms, torture, trafficking and disappearance of minors. Given the remote locations these incidents are said to have taken place, with only one person in prison - and Trump wishes her well - you can begin to understand why some believe there is a cult-connected conspiracy to hide it. The fact of Andrew systematically passing on state secrets and sensitive information promptly to Epstein, an unofficial foreign national, certainly does point to Andrew being a spy and traitor in a not dissimilar manner to Philby, MacLean and the so-called Cambridge mob. But according to you we are not allowed to debate and should just stick to small talk about the garden and the weather.

Calling Mr. Betteridge

 

[theprestige]

Sorry, could you highlight the bit in that which is relevant to the thread topic? You know, the Satanic bit? Are you suggesting that the Cambridge 5 were devil worshippers?

Aleister Crowley and Victor Neuburg both attended Cambridge. Connect the dots from there. /s

 

[theprestige]

The thread title is a topic for debate

Offering up a topic for debate doesn't make it a functionally debatable topic.

What three facts would you say make the most compelling reasons to think Epstein might have run a world satanic ring?

 

[Vixen]

Quite impressive since she knew Andrew from childhood due to her father's polo connections to Prince Phillip & Charles.

So because Major Ferguson was a polo coach that meant his nouveau riche kids automatically were best friends with the royal kids? So explain the Epstein recently-released email from Sarah Ferguson to Epstein that he had only cultivated her friendship to get access to Andrew. She seems to be saying she introduced Epstein to Andrew, Epstein himself having been introduced to Robert Maxwell by Steven Hoffenberg. Ghislaine would have been introduced to Epstein via her father, Robert. Both Ghislaine and Sarah were girlfriends of both Epstein and Andrew.

Sorry, could you highlight the bit in that which is relevant to the thread topic? You know, the Satanic bit? Are you suggesting that the Cambridge 5 were devil worshippers?

My conclusion re the subject matter six years ago was that it was a sophisticated spy ring. Do keep up.

 

[Vixen]

Offering up a topic for debate doesn't make it a functionally debatable topic.

What three facts would you say make the most compelling reasons to think Epstein might have run a world satanic ring?

The weird art. The architecture: the Temple on a mound, claimed to have several underground layers, the trapdoor to the sea. Remote island access only by helicopter due to rocks. The gryphons on its roof, the Boaz and Janchin poles, the giant sundial with altar stone. The remote Zorro Ranch unpoliced by anyone, nearby the weird Ayahuasca Church, Scientology Cathedral, the LVNIM goings-on. Fergie going to Turkish and Romanian orphanages on a 'humanitarian mission' kicked out of Turkey for filming children, whilst a close friend of Epstein. The Lolita Express flights to the UK which stopped over in a remote part of Russia to pick up girls. There does seem to be a sinister aspect, likely some kind of kompromat stuff (cf. Trump) and the fact it's been going on for at least thirty years and still covered up (cf Pam Bondi, Kash Patel) we can see where the suspicion world powerful bodies have an interest in covering it all up lies, and in addition, the authority to do so.

 

[jasonkilanski]

From what I'm seeing, part of the problem is the word "Satanic". Some people mean that in the sense that there are "Satanists" who are really just atheists trolling Christians. Others mean that as in people who practice human sacrifice and/or cannibalism to dark powers; or something similar. I feel like I don't ever see anyone make that distinction clear.

Now, are there religions that practice cannibalism? Sure. Do I think any really powerful people practice these religions? It's possible, but not probable. There is more probability people who claimed to see things were drugged, or more we know some of them were drugged, and it's more probable this had something to do with what they think they saw.

Are there powerful people who are atheists who "Satanists" who are really just atheists trolling Christians. Yeah, probably.

 

[Thermal]

From what I'm seeing, part of the problem is the word "Satanic". Some people mean that in the sense that there are "Satanists" who are really just atheists trolling Christians. Others mean that as in people who practice human sacrifice and/or cannibalism to dark powers; or something similar. I feel like I don't ever see anyone make that distinction clear.

Now, are there religions that practice cannibalism? Sure. Do I think any really powerful people practice these religions? It's possible, but not probable. There is more probability people who claimed to see things were drugged, or more we know some of them were drugged, and it's more probable this had something to do with what they think they saw.

Are there powerful people who are atheists who "Satanists" who are really just atheists trolling Christians. Yeah, probably.

Ok, but applying Occam's famed shaving apparatus, I'd say Epstein was more likely a guy that should have hired competent interior decorators and hardscape designers. Being tacky doesn't make it occult.

 

[jasonkilanski]

Ok, but applying Occam's famed shaving apparatus, I'd say Epstein was more likely a guy that should have hired competent interior decorators and hardscape designers. Being tacky doesn't make it occult.

I agree. I can't pretend I haven't seen or known people who think "witchy" stuff is "cool". I'm going to need more than that to get from point A to "they are eating babies".

 

[Thermal]

I agree. I can't pretend I haven't seen or known people who think "witchy" stuff is "cool". I'm going to need more than that to get from point A to "they are eating babies".

I can say I know more of these types than I am proud to admit. They are by no means super wealthy, but it seems to be a cosplay for them. I imagine Epstein's jazz as the same kind of thing with a much larger budget.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Offering up a topic for debate doesn't make it a functionally debatable topic.

What three facts would you say make the most compelling reasons to think Epstein might have run a world satanic ring?

[Puts on swami turban and holds envelope to forehead] "What connects sundials, cushions and chess?"

 

[Jack by the hedge]

While I remain open to the idea that decadent rich folk might like a bit of ritualistic satanic cosplay to spice up the sex parties on their private party island, or indeed any other kind of costume fantasy; nuns or furries or schoolgirl uniforms or whatever, what I'm not seeing is a scrap of evidence that Epstein did indulge in that. Certainly not that he ran a "World <theme> Ring".

 

[Helen]

[Puts on swami turban and holds envelope to forehead] "What connects sundials, cushions and chess?"

If you want to sit on a sundial and play chess, you need A Lot of cushions?

 

[zooterkin]

So because Major Ferguson was a polo coach that meant his nouveau riche kids automatically were best friends with the royal kids?

They apparently met as toddlers, but didn't remember that. They were introduced to each other by Diana, in 1985.

Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell most likely first met around 1990 or 1991 in New York. Epstein, per Maxwell's testimony, came to know Andrew and Sarah through Maxwell, as they were in her social circle in the UK, though she didn't formally introduce them.

So explain the Epstein recently-released email from Sarah Ferguson to Epstein that he had only cultivated her friendship to get access to Andrew. She seems to be saying she introduced Epstein to Andrew, Epstein himself having been introduced to Robert Maxwell by Steven Hoffenberg. Ghislaine would have been introduced to Epstein via her father, Robert. Both Ghislaine and Sarah were girlfriends of both Epstein and Andrew.

As I suspected, we seem to running up against your apparent difficulties with comprehending plain English. Saying that Epstein was exploiting their friendship to get access to Andrew in no way implies that she knew Epstein before she knew Andrew. I'm at a loss to explain how you would come to that conclusion. All that it implies is that Epstein initially knew Ferguson better than he knew Andrew, and used that relationship to get closer to Andrew.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

They apparently met as toddlers, but didn't remember that. They were introduced to each other by Diana, in 1985.

Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell most likely first met around 1990 or 1991 in New York. Epstein, per Maxwell's testimony, came to know Andrew and Sarah through Maxwell, as they were in her social circle in the UK, though she didn't formally introduce them.

As I suspected, we seem to running up against your apparent difficulties with comprehending plain English. Saying that Epstein was exploiting their friendship to get access to Andrew in no way implies that she knew Epstein before she knew Andrew. I'm at a loss to explain how you would come to that conclusion. All that it implies is that Epstein initially knew Ferguson better than he knew Andrew, and used that relationship to get closer to Andrew.

According to Lownie it was earlier than that, there was a party when Fergie was about 18 at Buck House where she met him. Of course it's very possible they knew each other before that as her father had close ties to Phillip and Charles through polo. He was on the same team as Charles and they won the Silver Jubilee Cup in 1979, and he was Phillips polo manager for a while and then later became took on the same (unpaid) role for Charles. The polo scene isn't that big anyway, but within it they were particularly closely connected.

ETA: And of course her family has blood ties to the Royal family that never hurts in Royal circles........

 

[zooterkin]

Yes but...

View attachment 69141


According to Lownie it was earlier than that, there was a party when Fergie was about 18 at Buck House where she met him. Of course it's very possible they knew each other before that as her father had close ties to Phillip and Charles through polo. He was on the same team as Charles and they won the Silver Jubilee Cup in 1979, and he was Phillips polo manager for a while and then later became took on the same (unpaid) role for Charles. The polo scene isn't that big anyway, but within it they were particularly closely connected.

You're right, it's quite possible they met and even knew each other between being toddlers and being at the dinner that Diana invited them both to. That latter event seems fairly definite, though, and establishes a latest date for their first knowing one another which is clearly earlier than Epstein first meeting Ferguson. Which clearly shows Vixen's specific claim, "Epstein knew Sarah Ferguson before she knew Andrew." to be nonsense.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

You're right, it's quite possible they met and even knew each other between being toddlers and being at the dinner that Diana invited them both to. That latter event seems fairly definite, though, and establishes a latest date for their first knowing one another which is clearly earlier than Epstein first meeting Ferguson. Which clearly shows Vixen's specific claim, "Epstein knew Sarah Ferguson before she knew Andrew." to be nonsense.

Surely not!

 

[zooterkin]

Surely not!

IK,R?