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Split From Dick Oliver thread

Again, see edit. Congratulations on your ability to ignore context, a core skill of the conspiracy theorist.

Dave

I'll concede I read your sentence and not your mind, but to the point: what type of explosive did NIST use to produce the sound level numbers you quoted?

If other more plausible explosives exist and NIST still relied on this one, then they employed a strawman argument.
 
So you didn't say, "any explosive that conforms to the laws in this universe will produce a more or less similar noise level"?

The most important point, IMHO, is that troofers like yourself miss the "type of explosive used/noise management/magic solution" thing entirely.

It matters not the amount of energy released by whatever fairlytale explosive that twoofs care to postulate. Cutter charges work by turning copper into plasma and shooting it through the steel by way of its very precise engineering properties. This would presumably include burn temps and shock characteristics to propel the copper plasma. These would necessarily remain somewhat constant, regardless if you substitute RDX for C-4 or some nanothermite explosive fairytale explosive device.

So what Dave is saying is true, to any rational person.

Trolls, on the other hand, aren't rational.

Which group will you put yourself into?
 
These would necessarily remain somewhat constant, regardless if you substitute RDX for C-4 or some nanothermite explosive fairytale explosive device.

I love how you guys talk about nanoenergetics and nanothermite like they don't exist. The point is that NIST considered a very conventional explosive without looking in its own backyard for far more advanced materials.
 
I'll concede I read your sentence and not your mind, but to the point: what type of explosive did NIST use to produce the sound level numbers you quoted?

If other more plausible explosives exist and NIST still relied on this one, then they employed a strawman argument.

Is this another question where you claim to know the answer already, or do you honestly not know?

In any case, NIST assumed RDX, a widely used explosive for military and civilian use, and in particular a common one for controlled demolitions of steel structures using linear shaped charges. Would you care to suggest a more plausible explosive for cutting steel columns than the one that's widely used for the purpose of cutting steel columns? The truth is that no more plausible explosives exist than RDX. So perhaps I failed to spot a strawman argument because there wasn't one there to spot.

NIST's sound intensity numbers are generated for 2lb and 9lb of RDX; the 2lb charge would be inadequate to sever column 79 and yet would still generate a similar level of sound; all scenarios produced between +130db and +140dB at a distance of 1km from WTC7 without impedance. Absolute hearing threshold at low frequencies tends to be around +15dB, but I'd happily accept that a camcorder microphone wouldn't pick that up. A moving car ten metres away, which I suspect most camcorders would pick up rather easily, produces 60-80dB. You're looking to lose rather a lot of orders of magnitude for a camcorder not to pick up a +130dB or greater explosion.

Dave
 
I love how you guys talk about nanoenergetics and nanothermite like they don't exist.

Oh, you're talking about thermite. Sorry, I was fooled by the fact that you referred to explosives. Sorry, it looks like I couldn't read your mind either. We talk about nanothermite like there is no known or physically reasonable mechanism by which it can sever vertical columns, because that's a factually correct analysis.

And I love the way you talk about it like it's a silent explosive that has whatever properties you want it to have, and try to cover for it by saying it's so secret that nobody knows what properties it might have. It's an appeal to magic, pure and simple.

Dave
 
I love how you guys talk about nanoenergetics and nanothermite like they don't exist. The point is that NIST considered a very conventional explosive without looking in its own backyard for far more advanced materials.

The twoofer fairytale lies NOT in whether or not they exist.

It lies in the fact that twoofs think they can use it to get around the facts about how cutter charges actually work. They use them to avoid confronting the facts about burn temp/shock wave effects necessary to shoot hot plasma through steel.

Kinda like you did. Right, troll?
 
I love how you guys talk about nanoenergetics and nanothermite like they don't exist. The point is that NIST considered a very conventional explosive without looking in its own backyard for far more advanced materials.

You suspect that there might theoretically be materials which could be substituted (for an unknown reason) for RDX or other conventional explosives.

But you don't really know how this could be done without causing easily-recorded explosions at the time of collapse, because you have no data on how a nano-energetic explosive might be used in a shaped charge.

You're merely guessing about a hypothetical scenario without any proof that it is even feasible. Congratulations: you're writing a plot for a Hollywood movie, so you're a screenwriter, not a science investigator.

Red, this is science-fiction you're talking about. The only real thing about it are the names of the materials you're weaving into your fictitious narrative.

btw, since NIST calculated only the explosives necessary to take out column 79, it doesn't come close to the explosives required by the Official Truther Hypothesis
The OTH requires that columns along the entire building were simultaneously blown out with high explosives, at the precise moment that the building experienced a 2.25 second period of freefall acceleration.

When you can provide some real-world data on the use of nano-energetics in cutter charges, and demonstrate that a cutter-charge could produce plasma without creating an appreciable explosion (does this qualify as a self-defeating oxymoronic concept?), then you might have something beyond fiction to discuss.
In Hollywood films, a lot of neat and implausible stuff actually happens. Truthers like yourself are operating along the lines of Yuri Geller (allegedly, that is - don't want him to sue me:D) - you offer science-fiction, but you try to pass it off as real. Hushaboom explosives are as magical as bending spoons with your mind.
 
I really wish people would stop referring to thermite as an explosive. It's not. It's an incendiary device; i.e. it starts fires. It doesn't explode. Nanothermite did not exist in 2001 (and barely, if at all, does now), but even it doesn't have much in the way of explosive properties, if the article I read on it is any indication. It has some, and is being looked at to create more powerful bombs by the military, but it is not currently in regular use by any agency I am aware of. It's value in creating more powerful bombs lies in the difficulty in smothering the reaction of the chemicals involved, if I understand the article correctly. I am not a scientist though, so it's entirely possible I misunderstood the properties of nanothermite; regardless, it does not change the fact that it is a very new technology, not currently in use, and only in the research stage at best. Plain and simple, nanothermite as an actively usable compound does not currently exist.
 
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LOL. So RedIbis believes it was superdupernanotherm*te. Now all he has to do to convince rational people that it maybe could have been used is prove that such a device is capable of cutting steel columns. I won't be holding my breath.
 
LOL. So RedIbis believes it was superdupernanotherm*te. Now all he has to do to convince rational people that it maybe could have been used is prove that such a device is capable of cutting steel columns. I won't be holding my breath.

Steel structured high-rises do not completely fall down because of fire. That's it. If someone is going to claim this ridiculous assertion they need to back it up a little better than what's been offered up thus far. It doesn't happen. That's it.
 
Steel structured high-rises do not completely fall down because of fire. That's it. If someone is going to claim this ridiculous assertion they need to back it up a little better than what's been offered up thus far. It doesn't happen. That's it.

Why not?
 

Because history has proven that the only way steel structured high rises have completely collapsed in the past is because of explosives. And we're not just talking about collapsing. We're talking about disintegrated. I mean if you want to be honest about it.
 
A highrise is a building of 450' or higher. Name one steel highrise structure that collapsed due to explosives.
 
Because history has proven that the only way steel structured high rises have completely collapsed in the past is because of explosives. And we're not just talking about collapsing. We're talking about disintegrated. I mean if you want to be honest about it.

What?
 
First time in history? Well, name one time that an occupied skyscraper was rigged for demolition without anyone noticing, and then demolished without anyone who was there noticing it was a controlled demolition. Never happened before? I guess it couldn't have then. I'm glad we got that cleared up.

OK.

Got it.

Thanks.
 
A highrise is a building of 450' or higher. Name one steel highrise structure that collapsed due to explosives.

Name another steel structured high-rise that has collapsed because of thermal expansion. Give it up. It's stupid. To claim the towers collapse for the first time in history for one reason was stupid enough. Then to come out with a whole new first time in history excuse for WTC-7 is just over the top ridiculous. Where are the real skeptics around here? You all make me laugh with your nonsense.
 
Because history has proven that the only way steel structured high rises have completely collapsed in the past is because of explosives. And we're not just talking about collapsing. We're talking about disintegrated. I mean if you want to be honest about it.

Before men went to the moon, history had proven that people couldn't go to the moon. Because there had been no people on the moon, therefore there could be no people on the moon.

However, there have been people on the moon. Could that perhaps mean that relying on what has happened in the past does not make for good predictions for the future?
 

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