Detroit files for bankruptcy

[truethat]

Nitpick: Pripyat.

I have gotten geography wrong all day today. LOL

 

[Doubt]

Now might be a good time to invest in real estate.

Most of the prime real estate is already in the hands of either serious investors or speculators. Out in the dying neighborhoods it can be tricky to figure out who really owns what. Some of those that have staid put have been accumulating vacant property around their homes. Slow going and not much demand for many of those locations for now.

 

[ravdin]

It's what happens next that troubles me. The city and its people is not thrown a life preserver but allowed to drown.

The problem with a bailout is that it will allow the city to dig itself even deeper into debt, which will eventually require the city to again declare itself insolvent. Then the problem will be even worse the next time around. It's better to stop the farce now and let Detroit reach a realistic settlement with its creditors.

 

[truethat]

No ****** I never looked at a map before. Thanks True That!

Then why did you ask?

You have a population density of 253.8 people per square kilometer in the UK.

In the U.S. we have a population of 33.2 per square kilometer.


Obviously it is inconceivable to you because you are surrounded by so many people over there it doesn't seem possible that a city could collapse.

It's a huge city but the industry died and then everyone moved out. People move out, businesses close, the city loses revenue and it goes bankrupt.

I don't know, it doesn't seem so hard to figure out to me. I also can't understand why anyone would bother trying to keep it propped up.

Like I said, most Americans probably thought it was already bankrupt. LOL

 

[truethat]

The problem with a bailout is that it will allow the city to dig itself even deeper into debt, which will eventually require the city to again declare itself insolvent. Then the problem will be even worse the next time around. It's better to stop the farce now and let Detroit reach a realistic settlement with its creditors.

Exactly.

 

[Sideroxylon]

You can't force people to live in a city they don't want to live in. What can they do? I think most Americans have felt like Detroit was a dead city for ages. Time moves on and people move away and don't want to live there. When that happens the city fades away.

Seriously, do people expect the federal government to funnel money into a desolate ghost town that no one wants to live in?


That's like saying Russia should not have let Chernobyl die out and just keep spending money on it.

It's the people who cannot leave or have spiritual ties to the place and so don't want to leave that troubles me. To my thinking, these people deserve a certain standard of state essential services.

 

[DuvalHMFIC]

Wasn't this being predicted since the mid-80s? Didn't one of the Robocop movies even elude to the fact that Detroit was going bankrupt like 25 years ago?

 

[truethat]

It's the people who cannot leave or have spiritual ties to the place and so don't want to leave that troubles me. To my thinking, these people deserve a certain standard of state essential services.

I agree, that seems to be Detroit's reason for doing this. But we can't prop up a whole city for a handful of people who don't want to leave.

 

[Giz]

Wasn't this being predicted since the mid-80s? Didn't one of the Robocop movies even elude to the fact that Detroit was going bankrupt like 25 years ago?

Yeah, the movie predicted that by now we’d have:
1) A bankrupt Detroit
2) Cool boardgames
3) Cybernetic super-cops

2 out of 3 aint bad.

 

[geni]

Then why did you ask?

You have a population density of 253.8 people per square kilometer in the UK.

In the U.S. we have a population of 33.2 per square kilometer.


Obviously it is inconceivable to you because you are surrounded by so many people over there it doesn't seem possible that a city could collapse.

Oh its possible. Hull, sheffied, bradford all had a pretty good go at it. On a small scale former mining villages in the welsh valleys and the like (see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23028078 ). The critical differences are that local goverment in such areas aren't meant to be able to borrow money and far more day to day funding comes from central government.

I don't know, it doesn't seem so hard to figure out to me. I also can't understand why anyone would bother trying to keep it propped up.

Current politics make the alturnatives difficult. The term "Managed decline" is political suicide in many cases.

 

[truethat]

Oh its possible. Hull, sheffied, bradford all had a pretty good go at it. On a small scale former mining villages in the welsh valleys and the like (see http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23028078 ). The critical differences are that local goverment in such areas aren't meant to be able to borrow money and far more day to day funding comes from central government.



Current politics make the alturnatives difficult. The term "Managed decline" is political suicide in many cases.

Great article in that first link. It's what I was thinking. I often see people from the UK compare themselves to the US. And basically it's like our "states" are the equivalent in development and taxes and whatnot to countries in Europe.

So when people say it's so different it's because they aren't considering the size difference. Those Welsh Towns are basically the equivalent of Detroit.

 

[3point14]

The "central government" did step in, in this case the State of Michigan which now administers Detroit.

Before or after bankruptcy was declared>

 

[anglolawyer]

Then why did you ask?

You have a population density of 253.8 people per square kilometer in the UK.

In the U.S. we have a population of 33.2 per square kilometer.


Obviously it is inconceivable to you because you are surrounded by so many people over there it doesn't seem possible that a city could collapse.

It's a huge city but the industry died and then everyone moved out. People move out, businesses close, the city loses revenue and it goes bankrupt.

I don't know, it doesn't seem so hard to figure out to me. I also can't understand why anyone would bother trying to keep it propped up.

Like I said, most Americans probably thought it was already bankrupt. LOL

Not that it matters, but I didn't ask anything. While it's true that the size of the US is barely imaginable, that's not at all why I am struck by the idea of a city collapsing financially. In the Meltdown Tour, Michael Lewis mentions a town somewhere in California with a municipal staff of just two, whose City Hall has been turned over for car boot sales or something like that.

The collapse of Detroit proves that democracy doesn't work. You yanks had it the wrong way round. It should be: no representation without taxation.

 

[truethat]

We "Yanks"

wow. Someone needs a hobby other than jealously obsessing over the US. LOL

 

[3point14]

Then why did you ask?

He didn't. You answered a question no-one asked.

 

[Almo]

It's the people who cannot leave or have spiritual ties to the place and so don't want to leave that troubles me. To my thinking, these people deserve a certain standard of state essential services.

In a neighborhood with one occupied house of 20 (just for example), the person getting the services doesn't pay nearly enough to pay for all the infrastructure required to get those services to them.

That makes the situation really tough.

 

[truethat]

He didn't. You answered a question no-one asked.

Really?

How can a city go bankrupt? What does it mean in ordinary, everyday terms. America is an amazing place.

I forget how people don't like to read what is written on this site. Silly me.

 

[3point14]

Really?










I forget how people don't like to read what is written on this site. Silly me.

The quote you just gave isn't the one you responded to.

 

[truethat]

Yes it is.

You can't imagine this happening, and meanwhile it's happening in your own backyard in Wales.

If you have a city and everyone moves out of it because the jobs dry up, the city is going to try to pull itself back together. If it doesn't have the money to back up new industry it's going to have to borrow it.

If it doesn't work out, it will file for bankruptcy.

It's not rocket science people.

 

[WildCat]

Not cities. Small mining towns and failed early settlements. Detroit is a long established metropolitan centre with a history.

It was a large automaking town that failed to attract new industry once the automakers left or downsized. The Great Lakes aren't the freight transportation routes they used to be, the US population center has moved south and west. Times changed.

Detroit will survive, but it will be much smaller than it once was both in area and population. We can't force people or industry to move there or stop them from moving out.