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Detroit files for bankruptcy

I may have to plan a trip to Detroit to see the place before they sell everything. Especially the art museum, which is reputed to be among the finest in the US.
 
UK cities (well councils to be exact) are legaly required to set budgets that are either balanced or have an active surplus.
They're always balanced, on paper. Cities can't print money after all.
 
In Australian terms I would hope that the state would never let a city reach such a point, or if not the state then the federal government would take care of things. I cannot see how a state or country can sit by while one of their cities suffers like this.

The U.S. bailed out banks and car manufacturers. Will it do the same with the city of Detroit?
Australia has let cities reach that point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Ghost_towns_in_Australia

Detroit is larger, but it has lost over 1 million people since the 1950s. It won't wither away into a ghost town since it is much larger, but huge chunks of it will.
 
Not cities. Small mining towns and failed early settlements. Detroit is a long established metropolitan centre with a history.

... and also with a systemic budget shortfall.

When you've figured out a way to turn longevity and history into a profitable revenue stream for a dying city, please do let Detroit know. I'm sure they are desperate to learn the secrets of turning appeals to emotion into cold, hard cash.
 
... and also with a systemic budget shortfall.

When you've figured out a way to turn longevity and history into a profitable revenue stream for a dying city, please do let Detroit know. I'm sure they are desperate to learn the secrets of turning appeals to emotion into cold, hard cash.

They are working on it. In the mean while to starve the population of quality essential services is a crude way to treat your nation's citizens and seems a sure way to drive needed skilled people away.
 
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And there it is.

Not having a vote hasn't stopped you from having an opinion in this thread so far. What changed now?

Anyway, I asked you a few questions about how a similar situation would be handled in the UK. I presume you have a vote there. Do you have answers?

Others have pointed out that the UK works differently. It is not possible for cities to go bankrupt here. Bankruptcy would be at the national level where the serious borrowing is done. Hence my silence :)

If you haven't already, I recommend reading The Meltdown Tour by Michael Lewis. He describes how the financial crisis was experienced in different countries (Greece, Ireland, Germany, the US) and expains how it's at the city level where the pain can be felt in the last of these, due to financial autonomy.
 
I am shocked, shocked!

Is it true that some parts of Detroit are becoming naturally reforested due to abandonment? I guess that's one of the silver(or green) linings to this mess.

That's an exaggeration, but not a complete fabrication.

One of the cost saving measures that Mayor Bing tried, and failed, to get through was to have certain sections of the city seized under eminent domain. The few remaining residents would be forced to leave, and those areas would then be left alone. He wanted to save the cost of road and sewer maintenance. Those areas would then end up being naturally reforested.

As it is, there might be a lot of vacant lots, some of which have been vacant long enough for trees to grow.

A huge problem for Detroit is that it has a city income tax. None of the suburbs (except for similarly blighted Pontiac) has such a tax. That causes a lot of people to not want to live there. However, they can't exactly just stop collecting the tax, because they don't have enough revenue.

Meanwhile, there is the problem of the schools. The public schools are full of poor people. If you have a four year old kid, whatever idealism you might have disappears as you ponder what sort of kids your child will share a classroom with. I know several middle class families who lived in Detroit, right up until their child's fourth birthday.

It's a big mess. No one wants to live there. What do you do with fourty square miles of blight? (I don't know the exact size of Detroit. That's a guess.)

Meanwhile, I live two miles from the border, and I almost never go there. None of my friends live in Detroit. I go to the art museum once in a blue moon. I have been to the Fox and Fischer theaters a few times, and to see the Tigers, but there really isn't anything there to go to. The restaurants and shopping areas are in the suburbs, where the money is.
 
They are working on it. In the mean while to starve the population of quality essential services is a crude way to treat your nation's citizens and seems a sure way to drive needed skilled people away.

The thing is, the skilled workers already don't live in Detroit. Some may work in Detroit, but the cities main problem is that it has been turning into a doughnut, with everyone moving to the suburbs or exurbs and commuting in.

Hell, I work in a Detroit suburb, and some of my coworkers commute from the Flint and Ann Arbor areas. No one commutes from Detroit. I know some people who work in downtown Detroit, and everyone that I have asked says that they don't know of any coworkers they have that actually live in Detroit proper.
 
That's an exaggeration, but not a complete fabrication.

One of the cost saving measures that Mayor Bing tried, and failed, to get through was to have certain sections of the city seized under eminent domain. The few remaining residents would be forced to leave, and those areas would then be left alone. He wanted to save the cost of road and sewer maintenance. Those areas would then end up being naturally reforested.

As it is, there might be a lot of vacant lots, some of which have been vacant long enough for trees to grow.

I read awhile back that this is exactly what Flint planned on doing. I don't remember if it was ever actually implemented, but if it was perhaps that is what has allowed it to avoid bankruptcy?

It frankly makes sense, if there are not enough people to support the city's size, the city must shrink.
 
America amazes me. Period (as you say over there). I read The Meltdown Tour by Michael Lewis and he explains it is possible for American towns to go bust. In the UK that's not really possible. If they really got into trouble then central government would step in. In the US, where the law of the jungle applies, the city government is left to rot.

You do realize that our 50 "states" are basically the size of countries in Europe.

Here's a map comparison

http://www.sarmonster.net/UK.htm


The difference in land is significant because there is also nowhere near the level of population density in the US compared to Europe


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...MHTpUc6kA_T64AOhkoG4CQ&ved=0CEIQ9QEwBA&dur=96

Major cities YES but as you stretch it out it creates problems. When the job industry dried up in Detroit, people moved away to get a job. When people move a way, the city loses taxes.


Pretty simple really.
 
You do realize that our 50 "states" are basically the size of countries in Europe.

Here's a map comparison

http://www.sarmonster.net/UK.htm


The difference in land is significant because there is also nowhere near the level of population density in the US compared to Europe


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...MHTpUc6kA_T64AOhkoG4CQ&ved=0CEIQ9QEwBA&dur=96

Major cities YES but as you stretch it out it creates problems. When the job industry dried up in Detroit, people moved away to get a job. When people move a way, the city loses taxes.


Pretty simple really.
No ****** I never looked at a map before. Thanks True That! :)
 
The thing is, the skilled workers already don't live in Detroit. Some may work in Detroit, but the cities main problem is that it has been turning into a doughnut, with everyone moving to the suburbs or exurbs and commuting in.

Hell, I work in a Detroit suburb, and some of my coworkers commute from the Flint and Ann Arbor areas. No one commutes from Detroit. I know some people who work in downtown Detroit, and everyone that I have asked says that they don't know of any coworkers they have that actually live in Detroit proper.

There is a trend in the opposite direction. There is actually a housing shortage in Detroit now.

http://citiwire.net/columns/housing-shortages-in-detroit/

So there is a core area that is ready to rebound. But the city and school district finances are holding things back. The school district has been under state management for some time now but there is still insufficient resources for it to recover.

Once a recovery really gets going I would hope that it does not happen to quickly. Detroit was an automotive boom town. We don't need another boom and bust cycle.
 
You do realize that our 50 "states" are basically the size of countries in Europe.

Here's a map comparison

http://www.sarmonster.net/UK.htm


The difference in land is significant because there is also nowhere near the level of population density in the US compared to Europe


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...MHTpUc6kA_T64AOhkoG4CQ&ved=0CEIQ9QEwBA&dur=96

Major cities YES but as you stretch it out it creates problems. When the job industry dried up in Detroit, people moved away to get a job. When people move a way, the city loses taxes.


Pretty simple really.

It's what happens next that troubles me. The city and its people is not thrown a life preserver but allowed to drown.
 
It's what happens next that troubles me. The city and its people is not thrown a life preserver but allowed to drown.

You can't force people to live in a city they don't want to live in. What can they do? I think most Americans have felt like Detroit was a dead city for ages. Time moves on and people move away and don't want to live there. When that happens the city fades away.

Seriously, do people expect the federal government to funnel money into a desolate ghost town that no one wants to live in?


That's like saying Russia should not have let Chernobyl die out and just keep spending money on it.
 
It's what happens next that troubles me. The city and its people is not thrown a life preserver but allowed to drown.

Detroit has been allowed to drown for decades. Declaring bankruptcy is a step in the right direction.

State government has alternately helped and hindered the city. One of the later bad moves by the state was one that hurt many local governments. The state reneged on revenue sharing to cut it's own debt.

The revenue sharing was in place from when local governments went along with a plan to eliminate local sales taxes in favor of a state sales tax. But in response to state level budget issues in recent years the state held back the money. Things have improved recently and some of the revenue is getting back to local government again but the lesson is that the cities cannot trust the state.
 
There is a trend in the opposite direction. There is actually a housing shortage in Detroit now.

http://citiwire.net/columns/housing-shortages-in-detroit/

So there is a core area that is ready to rebound. But the city and school district finances are holding things back. The school district has been under state management for some time now but there is still insufficient resources for it to recover.

Once a recovery really gets going I would hope that it does not happen to quickly. Detroit was an automotive boom town. We don't need another boom and bust cycle.

Now might be a good time to invest in real estate.
 

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