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Detox?

SquishyDave said:
But leaving aside the staggering number of drugs/herbs/food these pills contain, what is the basis for "detoxing" I really couldn't figure out how these toxins are stored in the body, and using my own internal logic, and what little information I have gleaned about biology, toxins are either pretty quickly removed from your system by your bodies natural process, and those that can't be removed by your body, well I couldn't figure out where things like mercury build up, or if there are poisons that build up and where they get stuck.

Also if there are toxins that build up, and properly tested drugs can remove them, how does this work?

If anyone wanted to help with this I would appreciate it.


The "toxins" that these quacks claim build up in our bodies are supposedly by-products of normal digestion or from resident bacteria in the colon. This is complete nonsense and why no one needs to "clean" their colon or anything else (like the liver), even if they could.

Real environmental toxins like organic mercury, PCBs and such can concentrate in fatty tissues, I don't know how these can be removed. Heavy metals can be reduced with chelation therapy using EDTA, this is the only true toxin elimination that I am aware.
 
SquishyDave said:

But leaving aside the staggering number of drugs/herbs/food these pills contain, what is the basis for "detoxing" I really couldn't figure out how these toxins are stored in the body, and using my own internal logic, and what little information I have gleaned about biology, toxins are either pretty quickly removed from your system by your bodies natural process, and those that can't be removed by your body, well I couldn't figure out where things like mercury build up, or if there are poisons that build up and where they get stuck.

Also if there are toxins that build up, and properly tested drugs can remove them, how does this work?

If anyone wanted to help with this I would appreciate it.

Not to gross you folks out, but there are plenty of places in your body for nasty stuff to build up, especially in the GI. If it gets too gunked up in there it can cause problems.

I run through a bottle of a fiber type cleanser every month or so, but don't consider this "detoxifying". It just alot of fiber with some laxative herbs. Keeps the pipes clean.

The best way to detoxify yourself is to drink plenty of water, this helps flush out toxins the build up elsewhere in your body.

Re: Chelation. Certain metals will build up in the body and are difficult for the body to flush out. Chelating compounds bind to the metal atoms and form an organic molecule that the body can deal with.
 
EvilYeti said:


Not to gross you folks out, but there are plenty of places in your body for nasty stuff to build up, especially in the GI. If it gets too gunked up in there it can cause problems.

I run through a bottle of a fiber type cleanser every month or so, but don't consider this "detoxifying". It just alot of fiber with some laxative herbs. Keeps the pipes clean.

Nonsense, the GI tract does not "build up". You're wasting your money.

EvilYeti said:

The best way to detoxify yourself is to drink plenty of water, this helps flush out toxins the build up elsewhere in your body.

More rubbish. Toxins do not "build up" if you don't drink a lot of water.

EvilYeti said:

Re: Chelation. Certain metals will build up in the body and are difficult for the body to flush out. Chelating compounds bind to the metal atoms and form an organic molecule that the body can deal with.

This is only necessary if one has been exposed to high levels of harmful heavy metals like lead. No one else needs chelation therapy.
 
BTox said:

Nonsense, the GI tract does not "build up". You're wasting your money.

You ever hear of constipation?

More rubbish. Toxins do not "build up" if you don't drink a lot of water.

You ever hear of urination?

This is only necessary if one has been exposed to high levels of harmful heavy metals like lead. No one else needs chelation therapy.

Not denying that.
 
Thanks for the input Eos, Btox and Yeti.

Eos I will work through some of the more relevant links, thanks for the info.

BTox Thanks, your view seems different than Yeti, so basically instead of choosing which of you guys is right randomly, I will get/find/steal more info. If you have any more you want put forward feel free, but if not no worries. I'm sure I can find it.

Yeti thanks for posting, same goes for you as for BTox, But you said more than him so I will ask you more, you've said nasty stuff can build up in the GI, but not what it is, where it is, and what side effects it has.

You also mentioned toxins elsewhere in the body, without mentioning what they are, where they are stored, and how water gets rid of them.

That info is exatcly the depth I get from my Mum and Uncle, I need a little more information to understand this.

But your description of Chelation was good, do you have something like that for these other toxins and nasty stuff?
 
Interestingly, the human body seems to be extremely good at "detoxifying" itself. The standard medical treatment here for some of the nasty critter venoms is simply to provide life support - providing that respiration and circulation can be maintained, the body will rid itself of the quite lethal toxins involved. Pretty cool, huh?
 
You guys back and forthed while I was writing, so yeti what you are saying is that constipation is the blockage you mean in the GI system, and the bladder is where the other toxins are stored?

I'm sorry if I sound stupid or like a smartarse, but I really just don't get what you mean.

Thanks reprise, I didn't know that. I think it is pretty cool. :)
 
I'm obviously not an MD, but I'll go out on a limb and offer this radical advice.
Drink a lot of water.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
[B
Patent for detoxifying cement. Can anyone understand any of that? [/B]

Yes, it's a great idea for those who are worried about toxins building up in their bodies. A cement body suit will do the trick! ;)

The patent claims a method of rendering industrial waste containing heavy metals and other environmental toxins inert by chelating the metals and encapsulating the entire mess in concrete.
 
SquishyDave said:
You guys back and forthed while I was writing, so yeti what you are saying is that constipation is the blockage you mean in the GI system, and the bladder is where the other toxins are stored?

I'm sorry if I sound stupid or like a smartarse, but I really just don't get what you mean.

Thanks reprise, I didn't know that. I think it is pretty cool. :)

Constipation is not a build up on the walls of the GI tract, which is what the detoxifier quacks claim. And urine eliminates urea, not a "toxin" but a by-product of protein metabolism. True toxins are taken care of by the liver.
 
BTox said:


Constipation is not a build up on the walls of the GI tract, which is what the detoxifier quacks claim. And urine eliminates urea, not a "toxin" but a by-product of protein metabolism. True toxins are taken care of by the liver.

Whats your problem?

Constipation is when ka-ka gets gummed up in your tum-tum.

Going wee-wee cleans out your pee-pee.

Whats the big deal?
 
Yeti

The problem here is miscommunication I think. I am trying to figure out what the herbalist type guys mean when they say "Toxin build up" and how these pills can help, and Btox is giving me info along these lines, you are explaining why you need to eat fibre and drink water. But these are two different issues. The pill makers talk about "impurities, debris, and pollutants" in your bowel, you talk of stuff which should just leave fine with every toilet visit provided you have enough fibre.

So we should all take a deep breath, and see about helping my mum save some money.
 
SquishyDave said:
You guys back and forthed while I was writing, so yeti what you are saying is that constipation is the blockage you mean in the GI system, and the bladder is where the other toxins are stored?

I'm sorry if I sound stupid or like a smartarse, but I really just don't get what you mean.

Thanks reprise, I didn't know that. I think it is pretty cool. :)

I don't know how the word toxin is being used in this discussion. Your body elimates wastes through numerous channels, your bum, your pee-pee, sweat glands and lungs.

This is called the excretory system.

You body releases wastes in the following forms.

Carbon dioxide
Urine
Feces
Sweat

So if you are concerned about wastes building up, eat fiber rich foods, drink plenty of clean water and exercise. Thats the best advice I can give. If your excretory systems are running at peak capacity you are going to flush all the nasties out of your system.

The bladder is where urine is stored. Wastes accumlate in your body for a number of reasons, mostly as a byproduct of metabolism. I wouldnt say they are "toxins" as your body is producing them. Your kidneys clean them out and dump them into your bladder.

If you are using this definition of toxins , I doubt herbs are going to be much help to you.

One of the main causes of constipation is "constriction", which means the intestine is narrowed or blocked, impedeing the natural flow of ka-ka. So, contrary to what Mr. BToxin asserted, ka-ka can get stuck in there and slow up the works. There are numerous other causes as well.

Why don't you do an experiment with the pills and take 'em for a week or two then report back if you feel "detoxified" or not? If you want to make it scientific have bloodwork done before and after.
 
My recollection is that the liver cleansing thingy involves severe dietary modification in addition to the supplements. Should SquishyMum happen to feel absolutely fabulous after a few weeks on the programme, how will she know whether it's due to the dietary changes alone, the supplements alone, or a combination of both?
 
reprise You've hit the nail right on the button. The whole 15 day plan requires a massive rework of your diet. You're always saying stuff I agree with, and as a result, I think you're smart ;)

Yeti yes thanks, that's what I was getting at, the claims made by the pills seem to have no basis in reality, as they assume even with regular ka ka through-put junk builds up somewhere somehow and you need the wonderful world of herbs to detoxify you. Allow me, if you will, to quote from the booklet.

......to draw into the intestines, toxins, impurities, unwanted waste and polluntants from every part of your body and eliminate them through the bowel
I think that last part is a polite way to say flush them. Even though they are, apparently, non-existant
 
reprise You've hit the nail right on the button. The whole 15 day plan requires a massive rework of your diet. You're always saying stuff I agree with, and as a result, I think you're smart.

Bwahahahaha. I think I'm going to use that as my sig. :D
 
SquishyDave said:

Yeti yes thanks, that's what I was getting at, the claims made by the pills seem to have no basis in reality, as they assume even with regular ka ka through-put junk builds up somewhere somehow and you need the wonderful world of herbs to detoxify you. Allow me, if you will, to quote from the booklet.

Yeah, that sounds like a bunch of ka-ka itself.

Remember my advice, lots of water, fiber and exercise and those wastes will just fly right out of you.
 
Drinking water makes you pee more because you need a balance. If you retained all the extra water you drank just to pee 'regular' amounts of pee, then you'd be in trouble. Your urine is less concentrated-so what.

Urea is the 'toxin' I think people worry about most in their pee. Did you know your sweat contains urea as well? There is very little difference between pee and sweat. Then there is water and salt. You don't sweat 'toxins' for the most part. You can pee out other organics like penicillin or whatever vitamin supplements you take. My pee gets very yellow when I take vitamin b. Your pee is no less 'toxic' than it was before taking detox crud.

Constipation is an indication you may need more water and fiber...but I haven't seen anyone post the real causes of constipation-including a bad diet. Detoxifying won't fix this. Drinking more water and eating more fiber does not mean you are clearing toxins. You're keeping your body in better shape by not being constipated, but you are no less toxic.

Your feces contain the products of dead red blood cells processed by the liver. That's what colors it that appealing brown color. The rest is undigested food and body waste. No matter how much detox crud you take-your poo will stay the same.

You don't get impacted feces staying in your body for years as claimed by some adds. You would die of the ungodly pain-you know when you are impacted. Using dumb detox crap won't 'prevent or cure' impacted bowels.

What are these toxins? Heavy metals? Pollution? Yeah, okay...eating healthy will be better for you than taking some dumb detox crud. Your body will then be able to fight 'free radicals' or whatever with the tools it gets from proper nutrition. Deny your body protein for a while and see how 'toxic' you feel.

Woo woo medicine makes it sound like you need 'detox'. Go eat some fruit, and some ginger, and whatever else for much cheaper than dumb detox crud. It will work better too.

Eat right and exercise. You will feel very detoxed in a short amount of time after you start that.
 
Wigmore theorized that rotting food in the intestine forms toxins that circulate in the bloodstream (aka, the intestinal toxicity theory) and cause cancer. She taught that the life span of the wheatgrass juice was less than three hours so it had to be cut from growing plants, juiced and consumed fresh. She speculated that the enzymes found in raw wheatgrass were alive** and could "detoxify" the body by oral ingestion and by enemas.

It was the chlorophyll in wheatgrass that enthused Wigmore. She called chlorophyll "the life blood of the planet." Wigmore believed that cooking foods "killed" them because this deactivates enzymes. She held that the moment the "sacred" 7.4 acid-alkaline balance (the same as human blood) is "killed" that its effectiveness would be reduced. [For information on exaggerations about the similarities between hemoglobin and chlorophyll see "Amazing claims for chlorophyll' (Lowell) Nutrition Forum, 7/87.]

NCAHF Criticisms

Wigmore displays profound ignorance of both the Bible and biology. Daniel 4:31-7 says that a prescribed seven years of insanity was visited upon the King as Divine punishment for his arrogance. Nowhere does it imply that the grasses healed him.

Enzymes are not "alive." Biological criteria for a "living thing" are that they (1)consist of cellular units; (2) possess reproductive ability; (3) demonstrate irritability; (4) carry on metabolism; (5) grow. Enzymes do none of these. Enzymes are complex protein molecules produced by living organisms exclusively for their own use in promoting chemical reactions. Orally ingested enzymes are digested in the stomach and have no enzymatic activity in the eater (specially-coated enzyme pills are designed to to partially thwart this natural process.) (Eos note: Protease in the stomach breaks down protein chains-like enzymes and then uses the parts to manufacture its own enzymes that are released by the pancreas)

The fact that grass-eating animals are not spared from cancer, despite their large intake of fresh chlorophyll, seems to have been lost on Wigmore. In fact, chlorophyll cannot "detoxify the body" since it is not absorbed. Although it is conceivable that enzymes present in rectally-administered wheatgrass juice could have chemical activity, there is no evidence that this is beneficial. In fact, when challenged legally, Wigmore backed away from healing claims stating that she merely had an "educational program" to teach people how to "cleanse" their bodies and make vegetable juices (she also offered for sale a variety of juicers and other "health" paraphernalia).

In 1988, the Massachusetts Attorney General sued Wigmore for claiming that her "energy enzyme soup" could cure AIDS. Suffolk County Judge Robert A. Mulligan ruled that Wigmore's views on how to combat AIDS were protected by the First Amendment, but ordered her to stop representing herself as a physician or as a person licensed in any way to treat disease. This was not the first time Wigmore had run afoul of the law. In 1982 the Attorney General of Massachusetts sued Wigmore for claiming that her program could reduce or eliminate the need for insulin in diabetics, and could obviate the need for routine immunization in children. She abandoned those claims after losing in court.

Wigmore wrote at least 15 books, established the Hippocrates Health Institute (c.1963) which later was renamed the Ann Wigmore Institute (AWI). Wigmore claimed to have a Doctor of Divinity (DD) from the College of Divine Metaphysics in Indianapolis. She also listed a Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) and a Doctor of Naturopathy (ND) degree at different times. None of her credentials appear to have been from accredited schools. Among other things, Wigmore also promoted "natural hygiene," spiritual healing, zone therapy, hydrotherapy, acupuncture, color therapy, and spot therapy. A number of "Living Foods" groups around the world espouse Wigmore's teachings.

.

http://www.ncahf.org/nl/1994/9-10.html


Hmm...read on...wigmore dies. So much for miracle medicine-can't protect you from fire. At least she didn't claim anything could make you immune to heat.

For 1994, Slim Chance Awards went to:

Dr. Clayton's Natural Program pills (worst claim) contain 13 herbal ingredients to "detoxify the blood and tissues" for "cleansing and healing the bowel." Promoters try to evade federal regulation for safety and efficacy by posing as foods. Fleetwood Tables (worst gadget) are another passive exercise system, whose claims, like 1993's version of the same device, were stopped by the FTC. Revlon Anti-Cellulite (worst product). This mainline cosmetic company used the quack term "cellulite" to promote its Ultima II Pro-Collagen Anti-cellulite body complex until the FTC stopped them. MarTrim (most outrageous) is an herbal product claimed to cause rapid weight loss with no change in diet or exercise by blocking sugar absorption, neutralizing calories and shrinking fat cells. Claims included one of weight loss of 87 lbs in 30 days. (Obesity & Health, Jan-Feb, 1994)

[Obesity & Health is published and edited by Frances M. Berg, MS, LN, Coordinator of NCAHF's Task Force on Weight Loss Abuse.]

WHEAT GRASS LADY DIES
Ann Wigmore, 84, founder of the foundation originally known as the Hippocrates Health Institute, but which now bears her name died on Feb. 16 in a fire at the Back Bay, Mass. mansion that houses the organization. Wigmore was known for her extravagant claims for the value of wheatgrass and other sprouts. In 1988, Wigmore signed a consent decree after being sued by the State of Massachusetts for misrepresenting herself as a medical doctor and claiming that her regimen could cure AIDS. Shu Chan, the foundation's director, vowed to continue Wigmore's work. (Boston Globe, 2/17/94)


Boo to Shu Chan. Boooooooo!

http://www.ncahf.org/nl/1994/3-4.html
 

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