Derren Brown's screaming stooges

[Azrael 5]

Dude, just shut the hell up with the trolling already.

I aint trolling , I'm just bringing your past behaviour to light for benefit of the topic. Is it my fault you and logic dont go together?

 

[Azrael 5]

So just to be clear John Albert
Girl on Experiments with hands glued to gether is a stooge.
Magda Rodriquez is a stooge.
And Derren Brown is not as bad as John Edward but then is ,also he is capable of rigging a theatre audience so he can find a stooge with a frisbee!
Fantastic. Ever thought of taking up comedy?

 

[tuoni]

I never said "actors never have time off." Quit with the strawmen.

My point is that they don't spend their "time off" appearing on professional telecasts that the union specifies they're supposed to have a paid contract for, completely pro bono for no good reason. It's not like appearing on Derren Brown's show is some kind of charity work.

Yeah, non-professional performers don't get paid because they're not in the SAG. The main thing about being in an actor's union is that they have to pay you for appearances on TV, in movies, on stage, etc.

They might feed you, and will even fly you in and put you up in a hotel in rare circumstances (if you're a special guest of some sort), but regular schmoes generally don't get paid for TV appearances except in rare circumstances. The production company and TV network that airs the show can get into all kinds of crap with the union—possibly even boycotted—for doing that.

We're not talking about an amateur cable access show, or even an amateur appearing on a professional TV show. It's totally different for a card-carrying member of the Screen Actor's Guild card on a professional television shoot. If you're a professional working in show business, you join the union and you get paid for performances. That's how it works. You don't need to have "star power" to get paid for appearances. If a reality TV show is looking for some "John Smith type of person" whom they don't have to pay, they won't use a professional actress who's a member of the actors' union.

I don't know for certain, but I strongly suspect the UK acting union is essentially the same as the Screen Actor's Guild in that regard. There's a reason they have these unions, to create a clear demarcation between amateurs and the people working professionally so that the professionals can be guaranteed pay and benefits.

Why do you find this so difficult to believe? It sounds to me like you're actively looking for any possible excuse that might allow you to deny that Derren Brown lied (which he clearly did, by saying he does not use any actors in the show). Even if she was not paid, she's still an actress performing on his show in front of an array of TV cameras and production people, so it's still a lie.

I assume you missed post #323 where I already pointed out that your supposed evidence for this assertion is nothing of the sort?

 

[Matthew Best]

I never said "actors never have time off." Quit with the strawmen.

My point is that they don't spend their "time off" appearing on professional telecasts that the union specifies they're supposed to have a paid contract for, completely pro bono for no good reason.

I realise you can't prove a negative, so it stands to reason that you can't prove this is true.

The main thing about being in an actor's union is...

blah blah blah

snipped a load of words

I don't know for certain, but I strongly suspect the UK acting union ....

snipped a load more words

Yes, that's what people have been telling you all along.

 

[Azrael 5]

Is there a UK/US difference in the phrase "No actors were used" ?

To me it means NO actors were employed,rehearsed,prompted,scripted etc in context of DB show.
If not then JA should be jumping up and down excitedly about Stephen Fry,Matt Lucas,Simon Pegg et al.

Another of John Albert's "Stooge" cries: He read on a forum somewhere that Derren used same poeple on numerous nights on tour from audience.
Im convinced.

 

[Stray Cat]

Yeah, non-professional performers don't get paid because they're not in the SAG. The main thing about being in an actor's union is that they have to pay you for appearances on TV, in movies, on stage, etc.

They might feed you, and will even fly you in and put you up in a hotel in rare circumstances (if you're a special guest of some sort), but regular schmoes generally don't get paid for TV appearances except in rare circumstances. The production company and TV network that airs the show can get into all kinds of crap with the union—possibly even boycotted—for doing that.

We're not talking about an amateur cable access show, or even an amateur appearing on a professional TV show. It's totally different for a card-carrying member of the Screen Actor's Guild card on a professional television shoot. If you're a professional working in show business, you join the union and you get paid for performances. That's how it works. You don't need to have "star power" to get paid for appearances. If a reality TV show is looking for some "John Smith type of person" whom they don't have to pay, they won't use a professional actress who's a member of the actors' union.

I don't know for certain, but I strongly suspect the UK acting union is essentially the same as the Screen Actor's Guild in that regard. There's a reason they have these unions, to create a clear demarcation between amateurs and the people working professionally so that the professionals can be guaranteed pay and benefits.

John, to be fair, membership of a union gives you 'rights' only when you want to claim them. It is each individual member's right to make their own decisions and if they chose to go on a show without getting paid, it's non of the union's business. Certainly here in the UK anyway.

There was a time when you couldn't appear on TV (paid work) without being a member of Equity. I don't know if that's changed over the years but I do know for sure that a lot of TV contracts for people appearing in TV shows that state they will make themselves available for unpaid 'promotional appearances' if required. No union has any power to to demand payment for anyone who chooses to appear free of charge.

So really, the only way payment could be used to show anything is if she did get paid (obviously that would indicate she was a hired actress), but if she didn't, it means nothing as she has every right to do what ever she wants irregardless of if she's a union member and you can't really use her appearance on the show to assume she got paid.

 

[John Albert]

I aint trolling , I'm just bringing your past behaviour to light for benefit of the topic. Is it my fault you and logic dont go together?

Yeah, ad hominems like that are exactly what I'm talking about when I say you're trolling.

 

[John Albert]

I assume you missed post #323 where I already pointed out that your supposed evidence for this assertion is nothing of the sort?

Um, it did not.

Your post stated was that Channel 4 was separate entity from ITV. So what? The difference between ITV and Channel 4 is actually of very little relevance anyway.

How does that invalidate my point that a professional union card-carrying actress appeared on Derren Brown's show despite the fact that he denied any actors were used?

John, to be fair, membership of a union gives you 'rights' only when you want to claim them. It is each individual member's right to make their own decisions and if they chose to go on a show without getting paid, it's non of the union's business. Certainly here in the UK anyway.

If that's in fact the way Equity works (and I've seen no clear-cut evidence either way), then I'll concede that I was wrong about that assumption.

There was a time when you couldn't appear on TV (paid work) without being a member of Equity. I don't know if that's changed over the years but I do know for sure that a lot of TV contracts for people appearing in TV shows that state they will make themselves available for unpaid 'promotional appearances' if required. No union has any power to to demand payment for anyone who chooses to appear free of charge.

But why should she appear free of charge? Being a professional who typically gets paid for a TV gig, why would she?

Maybe she was hypnotized by Derren Brown into working for free?

Or maybe some people here are assuming she waived her right to get paid, just to harbor their fantasy that Derren Brown never tells lies?

So really, the only way payment could be used to show anything is if she did get paid (obviously that would indicate she was a hired actress), but if she didn't, it means nothing as she has every right to do what ever she wants irregardless of if she's a union member and you can't really use her appearance on the show to assume she got paid.

Whether or not she got paid is still an irrelevant detail. The fact is, she's an actress and she was on his show, performing in front of cameras. Derren Brown plainly stated in the disclaimer to the show that none of the participants are stooges or actors, when in fact at least one of them was most certainly an actor.

I can't believe so many people are twisting and contorting this simple fact, making assumptions to imply excuses, all in the interest of weaseling out of accepting the fact that Derren Brown actually lied.

The amount of self-delusion that some people cultivate about this guy is simply astounding to me.

 

[John Albert]

A plausible explanation for voodoo doll:

We dont see the whole thing,its edited. She is primed via hypnotic suggestion or such(im no expert but it fits)and i sput into a situation where she is deeply suggestible.

Evidence that such a thing is even possible?

She is involved emotionally due to her ring being (she thinks)place into the voodoo doll,

Evidence?

and some dual reality is incorporated.Part of what we think is happening one way isnt.

What does this even mean? It's so vague it doesn't explain anything at all.

Along with some sleight of hand

What "sleight of hand"?

Evidence?

and a particualr magic prop we arrive at the conclusion.

What kind of prop?

Not saying 100% it's the method

What you said is not even an explanation. It's completely vague and did not even make sense, let alone explain anything. That's not plausible in the least.

it 's moresensible than "stooges".

No, it really isn't. It's hardly even sensible at all. It certainly isn't a "method."

What you said was barely a coherent string of sentences, let alone "sensible."

Stooges are a known method used by mentalists and hypnotists. Instant stooging is another known method.

We already know she's an actress, despite Derren Brown's lie that he didn't use any.

Considering Derren Brown states he doesn't use them. (please dont bore me with the "lied about using an actress Ive explained it).

He also said he didn't use actors, but he did, at least once.

 

[Stray Cat]

If that's in fact the way Equity works (and I've seen no clear-cut evidence either way), then I'll concede that I was wrong about that assumption.

Well again I can't provide any easy available evidence, but one of my ex-girlfriends worked on a BBC magic show and in her contract, it stated that she had to do free TV promotional work. She was an equity member.

But why should she appear free of charge? Being a professional who typically gets paid for a TV gig, why would she?

Surely any speculation on her motives for doing something that most people would like to do is a dead end isn't it?

Why would a professional ice skater go to the local ice rink, or a professional dancer go to a night club?
Why is the Magic Castle full of magicians all trying to do magic at each other in the lounge bar?

She is a bit of a woo (from the description given)... maybe it was something personal to her that she wanted to experience... or maybe she was secretly getting paid, I don't know.

Or maybe because some people here are assuming she waived her right to get paid, just to bolster their argument that Derren Brown never lies?
Whether or not she got paid is still an irrelevant detail.

Not if you can prove she got paid, it would be the conclusive evidence needed to prove she was a stooge. I suggested in the other thread, if anyone was interested enough that they could try to apply to Companies House for copies of the audited accounts of Objective Productions to see if there is a paper trail. It's really the only way to put the payment matter to bed. Though I'm not even sure if that information would be available or if it would fall under Data Protection Act but limited companies are obliged by law to submit audited accounts and they are as far as I know, publicly available for inspection.

The fact is, she's an actress and she was on his show, performing in front of cameras.
Derren Brown plainly stated in the disclaimer to the show that none of the participants are stooges or actors, when in fact at least one of them was most certainly an actor.

Like I said earlier in the thread, when I was being filmed for his show, I could have been an actor, he wouldn't even have known. There were 30 or so people in that small crowd, three of us did the trick with him, any of us could have been an actor. I wasn't asked about my occupation and I have no reason to suppose the others were asked either.

So really it does hinge on if she was hired for the job, in which case, proof of payment would be the only thing to clinch the deal for me. Until then I am still at this point; maybe she was, maybe she wasn't.

 

[Azrael 5]

Regarding post above (above Stary Cat's)your just being ridiculous . You want me to tell you what sleight of hand he used etc.? Duh dont think so. Once you stop posting assumptions as facts I'll be glad to.

So "suggestion" isnt possible? Lovely.

We already know she's an actress, despite Derren Brown's lie that he didn't use any.

Already explained. Simon Pegg? Stephen Fry? And on and on and on.

From Magda R's IMDB page:

Employment Details

• Work History: Live Art Performance, Voice Over, Radio, Theater, Internet, Television, Film, Corporate Recordings, Presenting, Commercial
• Job Categories: Acting, Production
• Are you willing to work unpaid?: Yes
• Primary Citizenship: United Kingdom
• Valid Passport: Yes

Boo ya to you John Albert

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for Rule 0.

 

[John Albert]

You want me to tell you what sleight of hand he used etc.? Duh dont think so. Once you stop posting assumptions as facts I'll be glad to.

So, still no plausible alternate explanation.

And I did not post assumptions as facts. I've simply looked at evidence and drawn my conclusions.

I have yet to see you present any evidence.

So "suggestion" isnt possible?

I didn't say that. You're making far more assumptions that I am, without any evidence whatsoever, and I've seen no evidence that the kind of "mind control" you're claiming is even possible.

Simon Pegg? Stephen Fry? And on and on and on.

That disclaimer was not even used on those shows.

From Magda R's IMDB page:


Boo ya to you John Albert

Congratulations! You do know how to look for evidence, after all!

So she said she'll work for free. How does that in any way prove your point?

As I said, that still doesn't prove she wasn't hired to act. Maybe she was hired and decided to work for free. We know she's an actress with professional training and a union card, and Derren Brown said he didn't use any actors.

Also, she had listed the job on her filmography, before it was suddenly removed without explanation.

 

[John Albert]

She is a bit of a woo (from the description given)... maybe it was something personal to her that she wanted to experience... or maybe she was secretly getting paid, I don't know.

Unless she was acting. You know, like an actress might do.

Not that it's conclusive or anything, but I've done quite a bit of searching for any evidence outside that segment on Derren's show that indicates promotion, endorsement or involvement with any kind of New Age activities, and have found nothing at all.

 

[Stray Cat]

Unless she was acting. You know, like an actress might do.

Yes I believe she was acting to an extent, because I know that you can't hypnotise a person in the way represented by DB. However, I've also seen non actors being able to act the part at hypnotist shows.
The sticking point is did DB know she was an actress and did Objective Productions hire her to play that part.

Not that it's conclusive or anything, but I've done quite a bit of searching for any evidence outside that segment on Derren's show that indicates promotion, endorsement or involvement with any kind of New Age activities, and have found nothing at all.

Yes, it's not conclusive, many people can have an interest in woo without it impacting on anything that would get reported on the internet. Even her personal website focuses on her work and says little about her as a person.

What is interesting however and you may want to follow it up is that Rodriguez is a member of Casting Call Pro who have provided actors for Derren Brown's shows in the past (not actors pretending to be participants but people for commercials and the actors in the Science of Attraction shows).
Jennifer Henderson lists her role as "Mother"
Rachel Waters lists her role as "Chic Dog Walker"
Both of these were the commercials and;
Oliver Brown who played an actor in The Science of Attraction

Notice that Magda's role on the DB show is displayed in her Resumé... However, it's only vaguely interesting, again nothing that couldn't be explained by her adding everything she's ever done to make it look like she's very experienced. I'm sure if I ever put together a Resumé of my work I'd want to include Magic/Prop build Consultant for Amazing Johnathan, Kevin James and Billy McComb, Magic Technician at the Magic Castle, Performed magic in several Vegas casinos... none of these things are lies, but they stretch the envelope without context.
http://www.castingcallpro.com/uk/view.php?uid=50174&position=1&page=1

 

[Sledge]

Two points for John here.
1)

you still havn't answered my two questions of "An alternate explanation for what?" and "Why do we need to provide one?"

Third time of asking.

2) Why don't you ask the woman what happened?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Whether or not she got paid is still an irrelevant detail.

It's been a key part of your argument for quite a while now. If she wasn't paid, then there's no reason to even suppose that Brown knew what her profession was. Maybe he did, but there's no evidence to support it.

This is the thing - I've not seen anybody state flat-out that there's no possible way she was a stooge, just that there's no evidence to suggest she was. You, on the other hand, don't seem to be willing to concede that maybe she wasn't.

 

[MarkCorrigan]

He said he didn't use any actors. He used an actor.

He used Simon Pegg as well.

The man must have paid him too!!!

Seriously "doesn't not use actors" = "does not hire actors". Unless you can show she was hired, it doesn't make him a liar.

 

[Azrael 5]

So, still no plausible alternate explanation.

And I did not post assumptions as facts. I've simply looked at evidence and drawn my conclusions.

I have yet to see you present any evidence.

Only evidence is that she is an actor,thats it. You cannot grasp this unfortunately. I dont need to produce evidence. I gave you -as requested-an alternative and you still dont like it.

I didn't say that. You're making far more assumptions that I am, without any evidence whatsoever, and I've seen no evidence that the kind of "mind control" you're claiming is even possible.

Ive not seen kind of mind control that makes people rob a bank(Heist) yet dont hear you calling them stooges/actors.

That disclaimer was not even used on those shows.

*buzz* Wrong.
Simon Pegg show ,usual disclaimer is said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5SD4WiwHJk

Congratulations! You do know how to look for evidence, after all!

Found no evidence she was employed by Objective,do you have any?

As I said, that still doesn't prove she wasn't hired to act. Maybe she was hired and decided to work for free. We know she's an actress with professional training and a union card, and Derren Brown said he didn't use any actors.

Maybe she didnt too. As ive repeated over and over "used" means "employed prearranged. Get it through your head.

Also, she had listed the job on her filmography, before it was suddenly removed without explanation.

Why does she need to explain it? Email her and ask her,its on her IMDB page.
From your other post:

What "sleight of hand"?

Evidence?

A false transfer of her ring.Evidence? look at at the video obviously! When I say somethign its usually true.

No, it really isn't. It's hardly even sensible at all. It certainly isn't a "method."

How would you know?

Stooges are a known method used by mentalists and hypnotists. Instant stooging is another known method.

Backpalming is a known method for card tricks,so you are saying every magician usues it?

We already know she's an actress, despite Derren Brown's lie that he didn't use any.

Simon Pegg,Matt Lucas,Stephen fry.

 

[Azrael 5]

He used Simon Pegg as well.

The man must have paid him too!!!

Seriously "doesn't not use actors" = "does not hire actors". Unless you can show she was hired, it doesn't make him a liar.

^ This

I've being trying to drill that into his stooge obsessed brain for days

 

[silver birch]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81360051/

watch the voodoo doll episode and decide for yourself.