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Derren Brown

Slightly off topic,but Michael Vine seems to have changed his ethics since James Byrne days.Simon Singh "outed" Derren Brown for his insistence he didnt do magic tricks to achieve his results,which forced Derren to change his act.So much for ignoring sceptics.
 
Thank you Mr Larsen. Here is my response to both questions.

Why not?

And as to Michael Vine he is not thinking of ethics. He is thinking of business. And I don't blame him.

I expect Derren Brown has some input into it also.

But to the actual subject of the performer himself. I am afraid that I am not a fan of the programmes that I have seen. I have seen two and found them to be dull and depressing. The dark lighting was oppressive and I find the performer less that awe inspiring. On television he seems to have no charisma or personality. Quite frankly I find him DULL.

Of course this is a matter of personal taste and I am quite willing to concede that many other people will like him very much. I will also concede that I have never seen him live on stage and I expect here he may well be much better.

As someone who has been interested in magic for many years I prefer my entertainers to be entertaining. I have never been enamoured by the tricks per se. To me it is the man who is important rather than the trick.

Whenever I have seen Randi do something I have always been hugely entertained because of this very reason. I beleive the secret of being a great magician or mentalist is to be a CHARACTER. I feel that Brown fails in this regard.

Only my personal opinion of course. You may well think something else. People are different and have different tastes. That is why there are so many flavours of ice cream.
 
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Originally posted by Svengali:

Only my personal opinion of course. You may well think something else. People are different and have different tastes. That is why there are so many flavours of ice cream.
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No. There's only one flavor. It's vanilla. The others are frauds and don't matter.

But that's just me.
 
If I were an impolite type of person I would reply to you as follows:

"Yes. And you are a toffee nosed git"

However I am not that type of person so I shall merely reply to you thus:

"why not?"

I have only two more words to say to you, Mr Larsen. And that goes for everybody else here.

The second of these two words is "off"

Goodbye.

PS. You have been had! April 1st seems to have come early. Cheerio............

Wicked Uncle Ronnie
 
CFLarsen said:
davidhorman,

In the "Russian Roulette" show, can you explain how he guessed what chamber the bullet was in?
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He didnt guess.
I read a post by somebody on a message board the day before russian roulette that said which chamber the bullet would be in, and the guy was right.
Derren brown is just as bad as geller, imo. And to think i used to like him and believed most of his "psychological" bs..
And if he didnt make such a big thing of him being a skeptic he wouldnt have anywhere near as many apologists. I wish people wouldnt be so biased.
 
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svengali said:
If I were an impolite type of person I would reply to you as follows:

"Yes. And you are a toffee nosed git"

However I am not that type of person so I shall merely reply to you thus:

"why not?"

I have only two more words to say to you, Mr Larsen. And that goes for everybody else here.

The second of these two words is "off"

Goodbye.

PS. You have been had! April 1st seems to have come early. Cheerio............

Wicked Uncle Ronnie
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Oh, you're so clever!!
 
Dang. And I was certain I had gotten to the heart of the matter.

No matter. I take solace in the sweet sweet thoughts that I have drunk from the well that is the wisdom of Svengali.

Truly, I am blessed.
 
I have information which may amuse those of you who are concerned about Derren's stance on what his powers are caused by and it also might bemuse those of you who say that he is a paragon of scepticism.

Here it is. He banks at Nat West who also manage funds of several psychics. They look after his investments. I further understand that Derren has the same double consonant in his first name as psychic superstar Dorris Stokes.

This of course has nothing to do with Derren or his stance on what his powers are caused by but it does show that his personal bank manager does not really worry too much who he has as a customer as long as the money comes in. Incidentally Nat West advertises on TV on channels that promote Derren's show.
 
I've seen him and studied his methods.

Personally I think he's one of the best, cutting edge mental entertainers on the planet. He really is a gifted magician and mentalist. I have his card-teaching video - to watch his skill at this and to think he ditched card magic....very depressing for aspiring magii.

Some of the stuff he does is classic mentalism but he often throws in superlative sleight of hand skill, strong suggestion, hypnotism and dramatisation and produces a synergistic effect that often truely amazes.

Re: the trick described - there is little point trying to disect a trick from the desciption of a person fooled by it since they clearly missed the secret.

If you like magic, mentalism or just being confused then definately take any chance to see him live or his TV shows. The guy is very talented.
 
BTW the argument that he is somehow duping people seems ridiculous to me. Of course he is - he's a magician. They lie for a living. They are professional deceivers. If you don't like it then don't watch it. But the rest of us are hugely entertained.

Similarly the idea that he spreads misinformation seems pretty pious to me too. He's hardly a major influence on the minds of the public. Not only that but many of his effect DO use psychological methods, albeit linked with traditional magic methods. Just watch him do his visual card force - it totally fooled me the first time.
 
CFLarsen said:
Unverifiable anecdote. Doesn't cut it here.
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I was wrong about that. I searched and found the post and it was actually from the day after, it was just worded like it was from before. My bad.
How so?
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He pretends to have abilities that simply do not exist. He gives fake explanations for how things are done. He will do a basic magic trick and then "explain" how he did it by talking crap about psychological techniques and how he influenced the person or whatever. Repeatedly he says he doesnt use stooges etc. Many, many people believe him. He knows exactly what he is doing.
Look at this.
There are uri geller books and books about "how to develop your sixth sense" advertised at the bottom of the page. And this is in the science section of channel4.com.....
 
andro said:
He pretends to have abilities that simply do not exist.
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That sounds like a pretty good description of a magician.

andro said:
He gives fake explanations for how things are done. He will do a basic magic trick and then "explain" how he did it by talking crap about psychological techniques and how he influenced the person or whatever. Repeatedly he says he doesnt use stooges etc. Many, many people believe him. He knows exactly what he is doing.
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That sounds like a pretty good description of a mentalist.

Magicians and mentalists work within a frame of reference: they are fooling you, but you know it. It’s only a problem when the performer or the audience loses the frame of reference and claims that their tricks are real or the audience goes on believing once the performance is over.

Derren describes himself as a psychological illusionist. If people wish to forget that and believe he is for real then it is they who are at fault, not Derren.

Mentalism can actually be quite cold and boring. You know the “think of a number between 1 and 1000 – now look at this card, I predicted the number that you thought of”. The thing that’s lacking is “how?”

What Derren has done is introduce some mechanisms by which his feats are achieved. Yes they are deceptions; but that’s what raises his performances to such a high standard. It’s no accident that he’s so popular.

His basic message is, and this is borne out by the special shows he’s done, that these mystical powers are not real but it’s very easy to fall for them as such.

Those who have a problem with Derren just aren’t getting the message; and that’s not Derren’s fault.

andro said:
Look at this.
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andro said:
There are uri geller books and books about "how to develop your sixth sense" advertised at the bottom of the page. And this is in the science section of channel4.com.....
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with Derren Brown.
 
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