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Derren Brown

I am a big fan of Derren Brown. He shows great skill as a conjurer and as an entertaining personality (cf David Blaine). He does not claim paranormal powers but skill, dexterity and lots of practice.

He fools people for entertainment. He's inventive and much better at conjuring and fakery than Geller or Browne.

Kudos to him for bringing TV magic into the 21st Century.
 
When people leave a show by a magician such as Randi or P&T, they'll know it was trickery, sleight of hand, misdirection etc.

Many people leaving Derren Brown's act, or watching his TV show, are convinced that he does it by reading their minds/body language or manipulating them in a psychological manner. That's the difference.

On balance I enjoy his stuff. I especially liked his Messiah programme. I do think however he blurrs the line rather.
 
Derren never states he is psychic,and if people think he reads body signals what harm is there?
He stated on Messiah "if they ask me if it's a trick I will tell them "yes" " More fool them for being so ready to believe.
 
I think some here have misunderstood the original complaint/question of david horman (and taken up, I think, by mummymonkey; I haven't spent ages studying this thread so apologies if I'm misrepresenting someone).

The OP isn't about DB portraying himself as using psychical methods; we all agree that he does not (irrespective that some people choose to believe he does anyway).

It is about him portraying himself using psychological methods beyond the normal ones of the magician's trade.

If I understand correctly, the OP asks: does not this (apparent) misrepresentation make DB a deceiver more than an artiste? I don't think it does, mainly because I don't think he goes to the degree implied, though I admit I have only seen his Seance performance.

On the other hand, if DB were to use his shows as a launching pad for selling books on "Psychological Manipulation", such as I have seen at times, then I'd probably change my tune.
 
I happen to agree, Az. Just clarifying the OP to preclude strawmen on our part.
 
I saw a television show he did where, after selecting a member of the audience, he proceeded to 'guess' which hand a coin was in five times in a row. He claimed he did this through reading body language and a variant of NLP. Is the popular concensus that he was using some sort of trickery, because I was perfectly happy to accept the given explaination.

Does this make me gullible?
 
I want to know how the hell he does it.

If he ever turns up at TAM, he will tell me. Believe me, he will.

I want answers, and I know how to get them. ;)
 
It is possible to guess a coin in the hand using body language.I have performed this trick and got 3 out of 3 right! However,I wouldnt risk £50 on being right like Derren does.So he is helped out a little,by the wonders of technology.Cant say no more.
Of all the effects he does,this is probably the closest to being done the way he claims.
 
Azrael 5 said:
It is possible to guess a coin in the hand using body language.I have performed this trick and got 3 out of 3 right! However,I wouldnt risk £50 on being right like Derren does.So he is helped out a little,by the wonders of technology.Cant say no more.
Of all the effects he does,this is probably the closest to being done the way he claims.
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You've shattered my illusions :( . And made me feel a little more gullible than I did before, how very dissapointing. But a genuine thank you.

(Can you replicate the trick?)
 
3point14 said:
You've shattered my illusions :( . And made me feel a little more gullible than I did before, how very dissapointing. But a genuine thank you.

(Can you replicate the trick?)
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Well,yes.But not with any replicable accuracy.
 
teacher said:
When magicians perform their tricks, it isn't plausible to keep referring to the 'just a trick folks' and winking throughout the show in a knowing way and constantly reminding people that she/he has no psychic powers.
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Except he does . Saw his live show last year and one of the final tricks was guessing which word a person would choose from a randomly chosen paragraph on a randomly chosen page from a randomly chosen newspaper

However I'm sure most of us were aware it was far from random, but we were unaware how much he had been manipluating the crowd. In case we did not beleive him he then showed a quick highlights video from that evening's performance showing everytime he was droppping in one of his suggestions. In one of the more blatant examples (well blatant with the gift of hindsight) he actually gives the hidden camera a sly look and winks. I think that was the defining moment of the show for me :)
 
I have information which may amuse those of you who are concerned about Derren's stance on what his powers are caused by and it also might bemuse those of you who say that he is a paragon of scepticism.

Here it is. His manager Michael Vine used to manage a psychic named James Byrne. He used to promote the fellow in theatre type situations. I understand that it wasn't always financially successful because they had strong competition at the time from psychic superstar Doris Stokes.

This of course has nothing to do with Derren but it does show that his personal manager Mr Vine does not really worry too much what he is promoting as long as the money comes in. Incidentally Michael owns the TV production company that promotes Derren's show.
 
svengali said:
I have information which may amuse those of you who are concerned about Derren's stance on what his powers are caused by and it also might bemuse those of you who say that he is a paragon of scepticism.

Here it is. His manager Michael Vine used to manage a psychic named James Byrne. He used to promote the fellow in theatre type situations. I understand that it wasn't always financially successful because they had strong competition at the time from psychic superstar Doris Stokes.

This of course has nothing to do with Derren but it does show that his personal manager Mr Vine does not really worry too much what he is promoting as long as the money comes in. Incidentally Michael owns the TV production company that promotes Derren's show.
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1) Do you have any sources for this?

2) Why bring this up, if it has nothing to do with Derren Brown? What does this have to do with his stance on what his powers are caused by?

3) Why bring this up, if it has nothing to do with Derren Brown's stance on skepticism?

Don't make me repeat these questions.
 
Originally posted by teecee:

Except he does . Saw his live show last year and one of the final tricks was guessing which word a person would choose from a randomly chosen paragraph on a randomly chosen page from a randomly chosen newspaper

However I'm sure most of us were aware it was far from random, but we were unaware how much he had been manipluating the crowd. In case we did not beleive him he then showed a quick highlights video from that evening's performance showing everytime he was droppping in one of his suggestions. In one of the more blatant examples (well blatant with the gift of hindsight) he actually gives the hidden camera a sly look and winks. I think that was the defining moment of the show for me
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I didn't see this, and I suppose it's theoretically possible to psychologically lead someone to a specific word choice, but this effect can be accomplished with both non-psychological and non-psychical means.
 
In answer to Mr Larsen I suggest he reads "The Psychic World of James Byrne" and refers to chapter 6. The authors of the book are James Byrne and John Sutton. The publisher is Aquarian/Thorson which is an imprint of Harper Collins.

In reply to his other two questions I am afraid that I shall have to ask him to repeat them.
 
svengali said:
In answer to Mr Larsen I suggest he reads "The Psychic World of James Byrne" and refers to chapter 6. The authors of the book are James Byrne and John Sutton. The publisher is Aquarian/Thorson which is an imprint of Harper Collins.

In reply to his other two questions I am afraid that I shall have to ask him to repeat them.
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What bearing does your answer have on CF Larsen's first question? The other questions are clearly written,just go back and re-read.
teecee,as this is Conjuror's corner I think its safe to say,the newspaper effect you mention,is a trick as Garette implied.;)
 
Mr Larsen's first question was an enquiry as to whether I had any sources for my claim that Derren Brown's manager was also the manager of a known psychic medium. Perhaps I should have made clear in my post that Chapter 6 of the book I mentioned is a full account of Michael Vine's adventures with James Byrne and it does make abundantly clear that he was indeed his manager.

I have met Mr Vine and I distinctly remember him telling me that if sceptics wanted to arrange a challenge for a psychic on a certain day and a certain time he would advise the psychic to agree to the challenge but just not show up. I got the impression that he was no fan of sceptical people who wanted to put psychics on the spot.

Since Michael is constantly advising Derren perhaps this should be borne in mind when assessing his stance on psychic matters.
 
svengali said:
In reply to his other two questions I am afraid that I shall have to ask him to repeat them.
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It's not a problem for me:

2) Why bring this up, if it has nothing to do with Derren Brown? What does this have to do with his stance on what his powers are caused by?

3) Why bring this up, if it has nothing to do with Derren Brown's stance on skepticism?
 
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