Deporting illegal residents.

[Norman Alexander]

A sword hung over Damocles, by a very thin thread.

I know the legend. What is the significance here?

 

[Norman Alexander]

No, this is silly.

Of course it is.

I've lived overseas in a number of places for periods up to years. All the documents I've received granting me permission (as a non-citizen) to stay in these countries clearly state the last day on which the permission is valid. It's up to me, the licensee, to either leave by that time or have made arrangements with the government to extend the permission. It's no more the government's responsibility to actively seek me out and remove me as it is the government's job to come to my house and bang on my door when my driver license expires. Enforcement occurs when a reason arises to query the permission by which I'm doing something, whatever it is.

As happens in most civilised countries. Visa overstayers are usually not counted as illegal immigrants.

However, should I overstay my visa I would expect some proportionality to the enforcement. I might expect to be taken gently into custody if all I've done is commit an immigration infraction, or simply ordered to leave. But what many Americans object to (and which isn't necessarily always the case) is the brutality with which some American immigration enforcements are taking place.

Oh no! What you need to do is brand all such people as "illegal immigrants", make them sound like they are invading your country to tuk yer jawbz an wimminz, and add them to the Invasion Scoreboard. It works better if you pretend they are brown and/or Muslim. Then send in your untrained but heavily armed mobs to them track down, arrest them at the point of a gun, and forcibly detain them in inhumane conditions pending chained deportation to somewhere else in the world but home. And be patriotically gleeful about that, even if it means a few innocent citizens get hurt or killed in the process even if they are white. You can't expect proportionality from people who can't even spell "gun". But Trump likes this way so it's all good.

 

[theprestige]

Of course it is.

As happens in most civilised countries. Visa overstayers are usually not counted as illegal immigrants.

Oh no! What you need to do is brand all such people as "illegal immigrants", make them sound like they are invading your country to tuk yer jawbz an wimminz, and add them to the Invasion Scoreboard. It works better if you pretend they are brown and/or Muslim. Then send in your untrained but heavily armed mobs to them track down, arrest them at the point of a gun, and forcibly detain them in inhumane conditions pending chained deportation to somewhere else in the world but home. And be patriotically gleeful about that, even if it means a few innocent citizens get hurt or killed in the process even if they are white. You can't expect proportionality from people who can't even spell "gun". But Trump likes this way so it's all good.

Good thing this thread is about illegal residents.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Good thing this thread is about illegal residents.

No difference to MAGA twats.

 

[theprestige]

No difference to MAGA twats.

Nor should it be. Illegal is illegal. Deporation is the proper remedy for both types.

 

[Darat]

No difference to MAGA twats.

I'm unsure how a country like Sweden could act differently, there was a defined, easy to access process in place for British folk who were legal residents under EU law until the UK ended their EU membership. No one was going to be deported who was at the time of Brexit a legal resident but they had to regularise their residency. The UK did the same for EU citizens who were legally resident in the UK under EU law after Brexit.

At some point those who decided not to regularise their residency will have to be deported.

(This is very much unlike the disgusting controversy generated by the UK government regarding regularising the citizenship and residency of those from the Windrush generations.)

 

[Norman Alexander]

Nor should it be. Illegal is illegal. Deporation is the proper remedy for both types.

"Illegal" as in "got a parking ticket"? Or "illegal" as in "evil drug lord"?

 

[theprestige]

"Illegal" as in "got a parking ticket"? Or "illegal" as in "evil drug lord"?

"Illegal" as in "overstayed your visa". How did you lose track of the topic so quickly?

 

[Norman Alexander]

I'm unsure how a country like Sweden could act differently, there was a defined, easy to access process in place for British folk who were legal residents under EU law until the UK ended their EU membership. No one was going to be deported who was at the time of Brexit a legal resident but they had to regularise their residency. The UK did the same for EU citizens who were legally resident in the UK under EU law after Brexit.

At some point those who decided not to regularise their residency will have to be deported.

Or, first, asked to leave.

(This is very much unlike the disgusting controversy generated by the UK government regarding regularising the citizenship and residency of those from the Windrush generations.)

Australia has its "offshore processing" controversy, even now.

 

[Norman Alexander]

"Illegal" as in "overstayed your visa".

Illegal enough to immediately hunt them down and jail them?

 

[theprestige]

Or, first, asked to leave.

Getting asked to leave is one of the first things that happens. It's built right into the permission to visit.

 

[theprestige]

Illegal enough to immediately hunt them down and jail them?

"Jail."

I'm 100% in favor of immediately hunting down visa overstayers, and detaining them in a holding facility until deportation is arranged. Call it jail, call it prison, call it a concentration camp if you like.

You seem to be struggling with some basic concepts of immigration control and enforcement. Are all these leading questions actually going to add up to an argument at some point, or are you just trying to familiarize yourself with the topic?

 

[Norman Alexander]

Getting asked to leave is one of the first things that happens. It's built right into the permission to visit.

I'm aware of the official US process in broad terms.

"Jail."

I'm 100% in favor of immediately hunting down visa overstayers, and detaining them in a holding facility until deportation is arranged. Call it jail, call it prison, call it a concentration camp if you like.

That doesn't seem to be the first part of the process...

You seem to be struggling with some basic concepts of immigration control and enforcement. Are all these leading questions actually going to add up to an argument at some point, or are you just trying to familiarize yourself with the topic?

Not struggling at all.

 

[lionking]

Visa overstayers in Australia tend to do the jobs legal residents don’t want to do. Provided they comply with laws generally (yes I know they break immigration laws) nobody seems to worry too much.

As I have said a number of times, half of all Australians were born overseas or have a parent who was. We do have racists here, but not many care about the overstaying Uber driver, kitchen hand or factory worker.

 

[arthwollipot]

Visa overstayers in Australia tend to do the jobs legal residents don’t want to do. Provided they comply with laws generally (yes I know they break immigration laws) nobody seems to worry too much.

As I have said a number of times, half of all Australians were born overseas or have a parent who was. We do have racists here, but not many care about the overstaying Uber driver, kitchen hand or factory worker.

Agreed, and that's because whatever minor crimes they do commit while they are here pale in significance to the cost of finding them, rounding them up, processing them, and deporting them. And that's what all of the Rightist fearmongering about so-called "illegals" (way to dehumanise them, by the way) misses. And that's when it's not actually directly about the Great Replacement conspiracy theory, which is tremendously popular in the Rightisphere these days.

The vast majority of visa overstayers are just getting on with their lives. They're not committing major crimes. And when they do, and they're caught, sure, they get deported. As they should. This is the law working.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I know the legend. What is the significance here?

Threat symbolism. If we don't have any enemies we tend to go find some.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The British Isles seem to have missed the memo.

In the modern era, "can't just walk in" seems to be entirely a policy choice, not a geographical constraint. After all, Japan lets about 42 million tourists "walk in" every year. But only about 0.055% of the population is in the country illegally. Compare with the UK, where over 1.1% of the population is there illegally. So either Japan could lighten up a bit, or the UK could tighten up a bit.

Preserving the racial homogeneity is important in japan. It is the ideal ethnostate keeps the gaijin down.

 

[ponderingturtle]

The agreement is that you leave by a certain time. Breach that agreement, and you're an illegal.

Which is why we need to strip Elon Musk of his citizenship, overstaying visas is not acceptable and should never be forgiven

 

[Vixen]

The GUARDIAN's current series of 'Brits being deported from Sweden':

The wife of a British man detained by police in Stockholm on Tuesday ahead of a threatened deportation has pleaded with Andy Burnham to get involved in the Brexit catastrophe unfolding for many British citizens in Sweden.

Charles, who does not want to be fully identified, and his Swedish wife, Lily, were summoned to the police station at 10am on Tuesday, where he was told he would be held at a detention centre and deported within the next two weeks.

seems a little puzzling to me as when Brexit was effected it was clear that one had to make sure you registered your rights to stay in that EU country as a Brit. Now one or two are claiming they didn't realise Sweden was an EU country..? Given how rightwing the Swedish government now is and with their problem of gang warfare between various undesirable groups of relative newcomers, I would have thought getting registered on time would be the first thing any sensible person would do. But yeah, you can plead compassionate grounds but I shouldn't rely on it! Look how Sweden treated that woman with dementia in a care home. (She died before they could deport her as ordered.)

 

[theprestige]

I'm aware of the official US process in broad terms.

That doesn't seem to be the first part of the process...

It isn't. Again, the first part of the process is giving them permission visit, and to leave when their time is up. What I've described is what I think should be the third part of the process, following swiftly on the second, but usually isn't and rarely does even when it is.

Not struggling at all.

Maybe a little bit, but whatever.