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Denmark: Autism-MMR link back?

Eos of the Eons said:
This is where money and energy needs to go. Not in placing blame, but helping the kids.
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Better words I have not seen spoken in a long time. But still, the great desire is there to know what actually causes these conditions so hopefully we can cure or at least prevent them in the future.
 
Anders W. Bonde said:
Why are some otherwise loving and intelligent parents so hell-bent against vaccination?
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Well, I'm not "hell-bent against vaccination;" both of my kids are vaccinated, but I do think it's like anything else: a risk/benefit evaluation. There are risks with any medical procedure (if nothing else, there's the risk of dying in a car accident on the way to get to the vaccine), but we do it anyway because the benefits outweigh the risks. But if there's data showing that the risks might be greater than we thought, then of course that's going to make us re-evaluate it.

I can't really speak to your question, though, without knowing which particular parents you're talking about.

Is it because they somehow hope/wish that vaccination was a dumb, useless idea in the first place, invented by callous, greedy sadists?
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I don't believe that at all. Like pharmaceuticals, I think they're made by companies who want to make a profit and build a reputable brand name by offering a safe, effective solution to a problem. But there can always be problems cropping up down the road that not even the companies involved could foresee.

Or is it the homeopaths and other scaremongering quacks that have managed to win them over?
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In my case, that's defenitely not the reason.

I would be willing to make a very large bet, that if all immunization could be done painlessly, without syringes, then a very, very large part of the anti-vax choir would stop singing.
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Maybe. It's the hardest thing in the world to let your child experience pain, with him not understanding and looking at you with those eyes...But sometimes, being a parent means making the tough decision.
 
shanek said:
But the vaccine for chicken pox, I understand, is actually cowpox. Can cowpox form the shingles?
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You are thinking of smallpox vaccine which is made from cowpox or vaccinia. Chickenpox vaccine is actually made from the varicella-zoster virus (VZV) which causes chicken pox and herpes zoster or shingles.

The word "vaccine" is derived from the name of the cowpox virus.

Here's a brief from WebMd:

Cowpox is a viral disease that normally affects the udders and teats of cows. On rare occasions, it may be transmitted to humans and produce a characteristic red skin rash and abnormally enlarged lymph nodes (lymphadenopathy). Cowpox is caused by the vaccinia virus and has been known to cause systemic reactions (generalized vaccinia) in some people who have been recently vaccinated against cowpox.


Cowpox produces immunity to smallpox and, beginning in the 19th century, the virus for cowpox was used to develop the vaccines used against smallpox. Because of the widespread vaccination, smallpox was wiped out worldwide but has now come under study again because of concern that it might be used as an agent of biological terrorism.
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shanek said:
Hmmm...here's my understanding of this (feel free to correct me): shingles is caused by the chickenpox virus. In order to get it, one must have been exposed to chickenpox at some time in the past. Apparently, it lies dormant in the body and can flare up at pretty much any time.

Correct

But the vaccine for chicken pox, I understand, is actually cowpox. Can cowpox form the shingles?

No! Cowpox was used in the first Smallpox vaccinations - link. Later another closely related "pox" virus was used.
Smallpox is one of the great success stories of vaccination. It only exists now in laboratories.
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I would be willing to make a very large bet, that if all immunization could be done painlessly, without syringes, then a very, very large part of the anti-vax choir would stop singing.
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There is an oral polio vaccine which has been used globally; millions of children were vaccinated in one day in India a few years back. This has not stopped the anti-vaxers finding fault with it including the cause of new polio cases, HIV and cancer (by SV40 contamination).

There are also licensed vaccines for typhoid (oral) and influenza (nasal).
 
shanek said:
Okay, by this point, it really is looking like Yazbak is a woo-woo, and Goldman isn't faring out much better. At this point, I feel very comfortable dismissing their claims.
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Ah, the virtues of examining the evidence...
 
shanek said:
Um, problem: this paper is "Thiomersal not linked to autism," but in the Goldman paper it says, "The MMR vaccine does not
contain thimerosal." So that's a different claim entirely.
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Apologies, as i indicated i had only really scanned the thread. Anyway its still an interesting article and the anti vaxxers usually get round to thimersol at some point. At least it was Dannish.
 
Just popping in for a moment because this article seems to reflect my experience with this issue over the last one and a half decades:
http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA6D2.htm

Now back to work to the world of soccer (plus in the first week of school, getting violins sorted, hitting plant sales and getting in a few dozen laps before the pool closes next week).
 
No questions from me, but I'd still like to see that statistical analysis. Knowing that they're biased and not to be trusted is one thing, but seeing exactly where they went wrong is something I think I would find enlightening.
 
If your experiment needs statistics, then you ought to have done a better experiment.
Ernest Rutherford (1st Baron Rutherford of Nelson) (1871- 1937) English physicist, born in New Zealand. Nobel prize for chemistry 1908.
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You can have stats. You can have stats built on crazy numbers like the sun is 60 meters abovr ground, and the moon 20. Doesn't make the stats right, especially when based on falsehoods, even when the stats are calculated properly.

I'm hoping geni or somebody can answer your question more specifically though :)
 
Did anybody find out if vaccination is mandatory in Denmark? Sorry if that's already been answered.
 
I 'm hoping someone can better answer your question.
All I found was
Measles notification and vaccination began in 1976 in the Netherlands, where measles epidemics have occurred every 5--7 years: 1976, 1983, 1988, 1992--1993, and 1999--2000. Since 1987, two doses of MMR have been
recommended at age 14 months and 9 years. Measles vaccination is not mandatory for entry into school in the Netherlands.,
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http://list.mc.duke.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0004&L=occ-env-med-l&F=&S=&P=10922
 
Kiwi Kid said:
Did anybody find out if vaccination is mandatory in Denmark? Sorry if that's already been answered.
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No, it isn't.

We have groups of parents who won't have their kids vaccinated, but instead opt for the solution to have their kids get the diseases "naturally", by letting the sick children play with the children who has not gotten the diseases.

But try to tell these parents that they are subjecting their kids to a much higher danger than if they had had them vaccinated, and you will see fire and brimstone!
 
I'm going to bang my traditional drum and say that when a child, under those circumstances, suffers severe damage the parents should be held to account.
 
I know several people that believe that vaccines cause the disease, and that vaccines "shed". Thus, they figure exposing their kids to "freshly vaccinated" ones will spread the vaccine to them "naturally". They really have no idea how vaccines work, but somebody told them this, and so it must be true.
 
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