Democrats = Antifa = BS

[Damien Evans]

So now you're going to give a few examples of the 'good' people in this officially terrorist organisation...

...or maybe you're not.

Ah yes, 99% of the population are terrorists. Seems likely.

 

[dann]

There are no good Antifa, just like there are no good Nazis (apart from dead ones, in both cases). Again, I stress I'm not an expert on US politics, but I don't see many conservatives balaclava'd up roaming the country doling out violence and intimidation to people whose speech they disagree with.

Conservatives have much more efficient ways of intimidating people. They call the police and have them dole out violence. The police are much better equipped for that sort of thing. Baraclavas are soooo low-tech and just serve to stress the impotence of the Antifas.

 

[Mumbles]

Ah yes, 99% of the population are terrorists. Seems likely.

One might remember what the FBI said about MLK Jr. or groups like the Black Panthers back in the day, as well. As good as it's intentions supposedly were, COINTELPRO was likely a large part of why some elements of both the Civil Rights movement *and* the anti-war movement turned violent.

(I've noticed a general rush to proclaim any non-authoritarian protest group as "terrorist" - Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter being two recent examples. At least "Antifa" is willing to be violent, unlike the former two.)

 

[uke2se]

Explain why looting a small store during a demonstration is "fighting Fascism" as I personally saw some protestors, who I think would consider themselves Antifa do, when I was in Berkeley last year.

It's not.

That wasn't hard.

 

[uke2se]

Supporting extrajudicial violence and vigilantism without due process of law is an extreme position

I guess the founding fathers were extremists then.

and when you say you support fighting fascists, fascists according to whom exactly?

According to the dictionary, mostly. You know, right-wing authoritarians with a violent streak.

 

[baron]

Conservatives have much more efficient ways of intimidating people. They call the police and have them dole out violence.

Do they? Whilst my knowledge of the American way of life is not extensive I find it difficult to believe that the police make a record of the caller's political stance before embarking on a course of action.

It's not.

That wasn't hard.

So Antifa have their heart in the right place, it's just their methods that require attention. A bit like Thanos.

 

[Belz...]

So Antifa have their heart in the right place, it's just their methods that require attention. A bit like Thanos.

Just don't give them the infinity gauntlet.

But seriously, do you believe that every member of this organisation 'joined' in order to commit acts of terrorism? Or perhaps that they joined to fight against what they saw as right-wing racists, and things, naturally, got out of hand?

 

[baron]

Just don't give them the infinity gauntlet.

But seriously, do you believe that every member of this organisation 'joined' in order to commit acts of terrorism? Or perhaps that they joined to fight against what they saw as right-wing racists, and things, naturally, got out of hand?

I believe the former, if you replace 'terrorism' with violence, intimidation, threat, etc. I don't believe they see themselves as terrorists. There are many peaceful anti-fascist groups out there that people can and do join. The choice to profess allegiance to Antifa in preference to any of these others proves to me that the decision has been made to embrace fascism and violence.

 

[catsmate]

I distance myself from extremists. I simply don't think fighting fascists is an extremist position.

"Fists and stones and batons and the gun
With courage we shall beat those blackshirts down"

 

[The Great Zaganza]

"Fists and stones and batons and the gun
With courage we shall beat those blackshirts down"

stopping thousands of Facists from marching through a Jewish neighborhood
- how monstrous.

 

[catsmate]

I guess the founding fathers were extremists then.

The Sons of Liberty were definitely terrorists.

 

[ponderingturtle]

There are no good Antifa, just like there are no good Nazis (apart from dead ones, in both cases). Again, I stress I'm not an expert on US politics, but I don't see many conservatives balaclava'd up roaming the country doling out violence and intimidation to people whose speech they disagree with.

Yea the nazis know the cops are on their side and they don't need to bother with masks. Though I think they might be getting the message like after NYC and even though the cops were fine with their rioting and attacking people when the videos got out they started getting arrested! Totally unfair.

 

[baron]

Yea the nazis know the cops are on their side and they don't need to bother with masks. Though I think they might be getting the message like after NYC and even though the cops were fine with their rioting and attacking people when the videos got out they started getting arrested! Totally unfair.

Nazi violence = bad.

Antifa violence = bad.

Police bias = bad.

Give me a prize for my ability to accept these three facts simultaneously without brain meltdown.

 

[ponderingturtle]

One might remember what the FBI said about MLK Jr. or groups like the Black Panthers back in the day, as well. As good as it's intentions supposedly were, COINTELPRO was likely a large part of why some elements of both the Civil Rights movement *and* the anti-war movement turned violent.

(I've noticed a general rush to proclaim any non-authoritarian protest group as "terrorist" - Occupy Wall Street and Black Lives Matter being two recent examples. At least "Antifa" is willing to be violent, unlike the former two.)

They are so mean to those nice proud boys though!

 

[ponderingturtle]

I guess the founding fathers were extremists then.

Exactly. They were the scum of the earth and why people should celebrate a terrorist attack like the boston tea party who knows.

 

[Belz...]

I believe the former, if you replace 'terrorism' with violence, intimidation, threat, etc. I don't believe they see themselves as terrorists. There are many peaceful anti-fascist groups out there that people can and do join. The choice to profess allegiance to Antifa in preference to any of these others proves to me that the decision has been made to embrace fascism and violence.

I would think that the antifa people who engage in online 'attacks' aren't halfway as bad as the ones who destroy property and riot, no?

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Pointing to examples of good deeds doesn't really address the concern raised about the very frequent poor target selection priority.

"Why did you kick that dog?"

"Relax, I helped an old lady cross the street earlier."

 

[uke2se]

Pointing to examples of good deeds doesn't really address the concern raised about the very frequent poor target selection priority.

"Why did you kick that dog?"

"Relax, I helped an old lady cross the street earlier."

I agree. The problem is that in this case, the person who kicked the dog isn't the same person who helped the old lady cross the street.

They both call themselve Antifa. That doesn't make them the same person. Antifa is simply an emblem you put on yourself. You exclaim to the world "I am anti-fascist and believe in direct action".

 

[baron]

I would think that the antifa people who engage in online 'attacks' aren't halfway as bad as the ones who destroy property and riot, no?

I consider them as bad. They embrace Antifa ideology but baulk at joining in the violence so they shout encouragement from the sidelines, so to speak. As I say, if people want to protest against fascism there are 101 groups you can join, or ways to do it, without involving yourself with a group that is renowned for espousing violence and fascist tactics. Joining such a group - and certainly remaining within that group - says something in and of itself.

However, I suspect many members of Antifa are simply social inadequates looking to belong. The are unable to make a go of life so they seek approval using whatever means fall within their limited grasp. Don a mask, whack someone with a bike lock and hey presto, you're surrounded by friends and you're fighting for a cause. Your life has meaning and as an added bonus it gets you out of your mother's basement every Saturday.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Then there's the problem of coattail riding.

BLM has a candlelight vigil and then disperses by sundown. Two hours later a bunch of white suburban kids dressed head to toe in black are on the news smashing stores.

I'm sure in their minds they think they are "helping" and being good "allies."

They do what they want and will happily insist to anyone who listens that credit for their deeds should be applied to whatever group has a little bit of public sympathy that can be squandered (in some cases, even after being asked to stay out of it by said group).

ETA: in the same way as those border guard idiots. They operate under the guise of "helping protect the border" but really they would like to attack brown people and not be finger-wagged for it. Their behavior feeds left-wing reactionaries to see all border issues as racist in the same way that right-wingers come to believe BLM organizes riots.