Demand Koran Replace U.S. Constitution

[CFLarsen]

Larsen:

I am sorry but as soon as he called for martydom for his dead children I saw sparks. He followed this by asking for more bloodshed to avenge his loss. The fact is muslim extremists send their children out to die as suicide bombers, get paid a bounty for it and are assauged by the "certain" knowledge their children will ascend to paradise. In this case we don't know if the father allowed or was forced into allowing his family to be used as human shields for Hezbollah; given the turn of events they certainly ended up that way.

So, you admit you have no reason to cast doubt on the Muslim father. You just wanted to throw dirt at a father who had just lost his child.

If they were forced to lie low in a the three story building that was allegedly bombed and there were explosives stored there by Hezbollah is something I don't know. You would have to follow the discussion of this aspect or keep monitoring news reports for updates on the other thread(s?) dealing with this tragedy.

You don't know? How could you possibly claim that:

Hezbollah had situated an operating kayusha rocket launching emplacement in this village which it uses to attack Israel.

You are being disingenuous by asking if there were any rockets present. The devices to shoot them were present and you know they could be brought into play at any time. This is like saying there is a gun and no bullets so Israel shouldn't destroy the gun. How inane. At any time, given the presence of the gun, bullets can be obtained. In this case the bullets are rocket artillery.

I am asking how you could say that the rockets were in the village. What did you base that on?

Is your hatred of Muslims really that big that you can't distinguish between vastly different situations?

Do you have any reason to believe that these families were deliberately kept in a building possibly laden with explosives?

Why don't you contact the press with your end-all solution and save the children?

 

[SteveGrenard]

Be careful Claus your disingenuousness is showing. Your misquoting is also showing. How do you expect to get away with this?

I have seen the evidence that there are rocket emplacements or firing devices in this town. The whole world has seen this evidence. There are surveillance photos of rockets being fired from this town into Israel that have been broadcast.

Is your hatred for Israel really that big you can't distinguish between explosives and rockets? Between rockets and rocket emplacements?

Are you so pro-Hezbollah you accept blindly that Hezbollah being such good guys could not have been using these families as a shield or holding them on the site knowing full well Israel was going to attack there since Israel dropped leaflets and broadcast the bombing raid in advance. What enemy is so beneficient to its target, so sensitive to producing unnecessary collateral damage that they announce in advance they are going to bomb so you can get away? Israel. Does Hezbollah announce when and where its going to shoot its rockets? No.

As a Hezbollah town do you think then if the UN couldn't get these two families out at least Hezbollah should have done so as the sole (para-) military authority in the area? I wonder why they didn't do that?


What I said was if explosives (not rockets) were stored in this building is something I do not know. How you translate explosives into rocket emplacements or emplacements into rockets is beyond belief but I guess only you can get away with this crap because everyone gives you a pass on the language.

I am skeptical of this situation. The father who survived this tragedy may've had a hezbollah pistol at his head for all I know when he called for blood revenge and marytdom. He may've had a hezollah pistol to his head when he tried to get his family out and didn't as well. I don't know. But Claus something stinks abut this...that's for sure.

 

[CFLarsen]

Be careful Claus your disingenuousness is showing. Your misquoting is also showing. How do you expect to get away with this?

Please provide evidence of my "misquoting". Put up or shut up.

I have seen the evidence that there are rocket emplacements or firing devices in this town. The whole world has seen this evidence. There are surveillance photos of rockets being fired from this town into Israel that have been broadcast.

Show me this evidence. Put up or shut up.

Is your hatred for Israel really that big you can't distinguish between explosives and rockets? Between rockets and rocket emplacements?

I don't hate Israel. But I will not sit quiet if they bomb children.

Are you so pro-Hezbollah you accept blindly that Hezbollah being such good guys could not have been using these families as a shield or holding them on the site knowing full well Israel was going to attack there since Israel dropped leaflets and broadcast the bombing raid in advance. What enemy is so beneficient to its target, so sensitive to producing unnecessary collateral damage that they announce in advance they are going to bomb so you can get away? Israel. Does Hezbollah announce when and where its going to shoot its rockets? No.

I am not pro-Hezbollah. I have stated this several times.

As a Hezbollah town do you think then if the UN couldn't get these two families out at least Hezbollah should have done so as the sole (para-) military authority in the area? I wonder why they didn't do that?

No idea.

What I said was if explosives (not rockets) were stored in this building is something I do not know. How you translate explosives into rocket emplacements or emplacements into rockets is beyond belief but I guess only you can get away with this crap because everyone gives you a pass on the language.

Steve, you claimed that:

Hezbollah had situated an operating kayusha rocket launching emplacement in this village which it uses to attack Israel.

Rocket, Steve.

I am skeptical of this situation. The father who survived this tragedy may've had a hezbollah pistol at his head for all I know when he called for blood revenge and marytdom. He may've had a hezollah pistol to his head when he tried to get his family out and didn't as well. I don't know. But Claus something stinks abut this...that's for sure.

Why don't you find out, instead of making one baseless accusation after another?

Is your hatred of Muslims really that big that you can't distinguish between vastly different situations?

Do you have any reason to believe that these families were deliberately kept in a building possibly laden with explosives?

Why don't you contact the press with your end-all solution and save the children?

 

[SteveGrenard]

Clearly you dont know the difference between an emplacement for the rockets and the rockets themselves. I never said rockets, I said rocket emplacements. These may or may not have rockets loaded in them.

Here is the definition of the term:

1. A prepared position, such as a mounting or silo, for a military weapon.
2. The act of putting into a certain position; placement.
3. Position; location.

http://www.answers.com/emplacement&r=67

 

[AWPrime]

You don't have much faith in humans, do you?

I have seen too much BS not to be sceptical about this.

 

[CFLarsen]

Clearly you dont know the difference between an emplacement for the rockets and the rockets themselves. I never said rockets, I said rocket emplacements. These may or may not have rockets loaded in them.

How is it "operating" if it doesn't have rockets?

Please provide evidence of my "misquoting". Put up or shut up.

Show me evidence that there are rocket emplacements or firing devices in this town. Put up or shut up.

Why don't you find out if the father who survived this tragedy may have had a hezbollah pistol at his head, instead of making one baseless accusation after another?

Is your hatred of Muslims really that big that you can't distinguish between vastly different situations?

Do you have any reason to believe that these families were deliberately kept in a building possibly laden with explosives?

Why don't you contact the press with your end-all solution and save the children?

 

[CFLarsen]

I have seen too much BS not to be sceptical about this.

It must be depressing to automatically view the unfortunates as "stupid".

Those who stayed behind in New Orleans just before Katrina hit, were they also "stupid"?

 

[AWPrime]

It must be depressing to automatically view the unfortunates as "stupid".

You're quite good at twisting statements, it must be depressing for you if that is the only way you can discuss here.

Those who stayed behind in New Orleans just before Katrina hit, were they also "stupid"?

Some were.

 

[CFLarsen]

You're quite good at twisting statements, it must be depressing for you if that is the only way you can discuss here.

I'm going with what you say.

Some were.

Ah, only some. How do you tell the difference?

Could it be that this father also is not among the "stupid"?

 

[AWPrime]

I'm going with what you say.

Only if you have a reading disability. I said that some were unlucky and some were stupid, I didn't say that everyone was automatically stupid.

Ah, only some. How do you tell the difference?

If I had a need to, I would use an interview.

Could it be that this father also is not among the "stupid"?

The stupid do survive now and then.

 

[CFLarsen]

If I had a need to, I would use an interview.

The stupid do survive now and then.

But you are able to, without interviews, decide who is "stupid" or not?

 

[AWPrime]

I have no need to, so that is a mute point.

 

[CFLarsen]

I have no need to, so that is a mute point.

You felt the need before:

There are always some people who are too stupid to run from danger. The ones that survive will often claim that they coulcn't escape.

 

[SteveGrenard]

How is it "operating" if it doesn't have rockets?

Reply: The emplacements are there, ready to be used. They are always operational. In the days before this bombing they were used to launch 140 rocket launches at Israel. They are operational. They can be used so Israel decided, in its self-defense, to take them out. The presence of these civilians was unfortunate and tragic. Why this many civilians including kids were holed up next to a rocket emplacement is the big question. Why didn't their defenders Hizbollah evacauate them? They were warned repeatedly by Israel the area was going to be bombed. Why didn't UNIFIL bus them out? How did the rest of the town evacuate and only these two families get stuck there?

Larsen: Please provide evidence of my "misquoting". Put up or shut up.

I said "rocket emplacements", you said "rockets" period. You deliberately misquoted me. I believe you can understand this.

Larsen: Show me evidence that there are rocket emplacements or firing devices in this town. Put up or shut up.

Reply: Hundreds of launches from this town into Israel proves this. I don't have to prove anything to you. The international community has not denied this.

Larsen: Why don't you find out if the father who survived this tragedy may have had a hezbollah pistol at his head, instead of making one baseless accusation after another?

Reply: See below. In the NY Post yesterday reporters on the ground had eyewitness mentions of the civilian structure being attacked by "rockets." That was the precise word they used. I have asked but received no reply elsewhere: Did Israel shoot rockets at them or drop a bomb on an emplacement? The forensic evidence and inspection teams will clear this up.

Larsen: Is your hatred of Muslims really that big that you can't distinguish between vastly different situations?

Reply: I don't hate muslims, I hate the tactics of the whacko extremists and islamofascists. I worry about them because I am concerned they are as good as their word and want jihad from Spain to Iraq. Did you catch bin Leden's #2 making that call the other day? On Video? On Al Jeereza? I think you live in the jihad zone so you should be concerned. I don't understand why you continue to defend Hizbollah.

Larsen: Do you have any reason to believe that these families were deliberately kept in a building possibly laden with explosives?

Reply: Based on the damage and eyewitness accounts this may've been the case. Forensic investigation will reveal more. Also see below. Also Ollie North on his show last night echoed this opinion that Hizbollah was forcing civilians to remain in certain locations as shields. Its a win-win situation for them: if Israel doesn't attack them because they detected them then they win. If Israel doesn't detect them and attacks the area and kills civilians they have a P.R. coup. You make it sound like it's me and only me who feels this way. There are a lot of experts on this who feel this to be the case.

from another thread which is on topic for this subject:

July 30, 2006 12:00am - the Herald Sun

THIS is the picture that damns Hezbollah. It is one of several, smuggled from behind Lebanon's battle lines, showing that Hezbollah is waging war amid suburbia.

The images, obtained exclusively by the Sunday Herald Sun, show Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-calibre weapons.

Dressed in civilian clothing so they can quickly disappear, the militants carrying automatic assault rifles and ride in on trucks mounted with cannon.

The photographs, from the Christian area of Wadi Chahrour in the east of Beirut, were taken by a visiting journalist and smuggled out by a friend.

 

[AWPrime]

You felt the need before:

I don't see the word 'need' in that quote.

I still see no need, to have absolute certainty that they are stupid.

 

[SteveGrenard]

I don't see the word 'need' in that quote.

I still see no need, to have absolute certainty that they are stupid.

They could be stupid. They could be mislead. They could be emboldened and defiant. Or they could have been enticed or otherwise forced to remain near the Israeli pre-announced bombing site by Hizbollah. The
purpose would be to either deter Israel from attacking it or, if they did attack, to cause the civilian deaths, increase the inventory of martyrs and obtain a public relations victory.

In the short term Israel attacked. The result: initially Israel said it would stop bombing for 48 hours, Condie Rice got disinvited from Beirut and the world got the chance to give a tongue lashing to Israel and America.

 

[SteveGrenard]

CF LARSEN; Show me evidence that there are rocket emplacements or firing devices in this town. Put up or shut up.

Laying out the Qana calculation

Disarming Hezbollah prevents more crises

By David Schenker
Published August 2, 2006

Israeli footage of the Hezbollah katushya rocket launcher entering the parking structure of the residential apartment building in Qana, Lebanon, was compelling if not indisputable. But regardless of whether Israel convinces the international community that Hezbollah was using innocent civilians to shelter rocket launchers, the tragic death of more than 50 Lebanese in Qana is going to prove a pivotal moment in the Hezbollah-Israel war.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0608020160aug02,1,3607732.story?coll=chi-opinionfront-hed

 

[CFLarsen]

Reply: The emplacements are there, ready to be used. They are always operational. In the days before this bombing they were used to launch 140 rocket launches at Israel. They are operational. They can be used so Israel decided, in its self-defense, to take them out. The presence of these civilians was unfortunate and tragic. Why this many civilians including kids were holed up next to a rocket emplacement is the big question. Why didn't their defenders Hizbollah evacauate them? They were warned repeatedly by Israel the area was going to be bombed. Why didn't UNIFIL bus them out? How did the rest of the town evacuate and only these two families get stuck there?

There is a difference between being operating and being operational. It is not operating before there are rockets.

I said "rocket emplacements", you said "rockets" period. You deliberately misquoted me. I believe you can understand this.

It is not operating if there are no rockets. How can they attack Israel if they hadn't rockets?

Reply: Hundreds of launches from this town into Israel proves this. I don't have to prove anything to you. The international community has not denied this.

Yes, Steve. You have to prove your claims, even to me.

Reply: See below. In the NY Post yesterday reporters on the ground had eyewitness mentions of the civilian structure being attacked by "rockets." That was the precise word they used. I have asked but received no reply elsewhere: Did Israel shoot rockets at them or drop a bomb on an emplacement? The forensic evidence and inspection teams will clear this up.

So, you have not found out if the father who survived this tragedy may have had a hezbollah pistol at his head. Another baseless accusation from you, this time of a father who just lost his child. Way to go, Steve.

Reply: I don't hate muslims, I hate the tactics of the whacko extremists and islamofascists. I worry about them because I am concerned they are as good as their word and want jihad from Spain to Iraq. Did you catch bin Leden's #2 making that call the other day? On Video? On Al Jeereza? I think you live in the jihad zone so you should be concerned. I don't understand why you continue to defend Hizbollah.

If you don't hate muslims, why do you consistently paint all muslims with the same brush? Why do you work hard to come up with "explanations" that always paing the Muslim part in the worst possible light? Don't say that you don't, Steve - unless you want a load of hardcore examples thrown in your face.

Reply: Based on the damage and eyewitness accounts this may've been the case. Forensic investigation will reveal more. Also see below. Also Ollie North on his show last night echoed this opinion that Hizbollah was forcing civilians to remain in certain locations as shields. Its a win-win situation for them: if Israel doesn't attack them because they detected them then they win. If Israel doesn't detect them and attacks the area and kills civilians they have a P.R. coup. You make it sound like it's me and only me who feels this way. There are a lot of experts on this who feel this to be the case.

So, you have no reason to believe that these families were deliberately kept in a building possibly laden with explosives, then. Yet another baseless accusation from you.

CF LARSEN; Show me evidence that there are rocket emplacements or firing devices in this town. Put up or shut up.

Thank you. Why was that so hard? If you have the evidence, just post it, instead of these wasteful maneuverings.

Israel bombed Qana building by mistake: inquiry

An Israeli inquiry into the bombing of the Lebanese village of Qana said on Thursday the army would not have bombed a building if had known civilians were inside, but accused Hizbollah of using human shields.
...
"Had the information indicated that civilians were present in the building the attack would not have been carried out," the statement said, adding that residents of Qana and surrounding villages had been warned several times to leave their homes.

Will you finally admit that the residents inside were not at fault and that the Israelis did something very wrong?

I don't see the word 'need' in that quote.

You felt the need to post it.

I still see no need, to have absolute certainty that they are stupid.

You had no doubts before.

 

[AWPrime]

You felt the need to post it.

"There are always some people who are too stupid to run from danger. "

I see, that you need (new) glasses. I never made the claim that they were all stupid.

 

[SteveGrenard]

Larsen: It is not operating if there are no rockets. How can they attack Israel if they hadn't rockets?

You need to understand that there are guns and there are bullets and both must be decomissioned if the strategy is to prevent those weapons from being turned on you. This is the stated objective of Israel's actions. They have not waivered from that objective.

Who said they didn't attack Israel? The world and israel tracked 140+ rockets on a trajectory from Qana into Israel. These attacks were witnessed by the world press in the week or so before Qana was targeted. If they ran out of rockets they could send for more. Blow up the rocket launchers and they can't do that.