Split Thread DEI in the US

[novaphile]

None of your analogies are tracking for me this week; I thought a lump hammer was basically a smallish one-handed sledgehammer?

One of those funny things in life.

I bought a lump hammer with some kind of artificial handle (plastic, or possibly fibreglass), it was the only one available at the time, so I bought it, expecting the handle to fail in the very near future...

... and here I am, forty years later, and it's still going strong!

 

[d4m10n]

/thread

While I have to admire the audacity of openly admitting that accusations of bigotry should be the final word in discussions such as this, I cannot think of a more appropriate thread in which to post this bit of breaking news.

Trump administration lawsuit says women’s retreat discriminates against men

https://share.google/gexEOCU2JlqpJsVjf

…the first EEOC lawsuit filed over a corporate diversity, equity and inclusion program, part of a sweeping effort by the Trump administration to stamp out what it describes as illegal discrimination.​

Women's corporate retreat seems like a weird angle of approach, but I'm guessing most of the experienced lawyers bailed from the agency last year.

 

[arthwollipot]

While I have to admire the audacity of openly admitting that accusations of bigotry should be the final word in discussions such as this

If the shoe fits...

I cannot think of a more appropriate thread in which to post this bit of breaking news.

Trump administration lawsuit says women’s retreat discriminates against men

https://share.google/gexEOCU2JlqpJsVjf

…the first EEOC lawsuit filed over a corporate diversity, equity and inclusion program, part of a sweeping effort by the Trump administration to stamp out what it describes as illegal discrimination.​

Women's corporate retreat seems like a weird angle of approach, but I'm guessing most of the experienced lawyers bailed from the agency last year.

Okay, for a start, there's no way I'm going to be ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ clicking a "share.google" link. Second, I don't give a rat's ◊◊◊◊ what the Trump administration says. Third, do you even know why women's corporate retreats exist in the first place? Do you care?

 

[d4m10n]

Okay, for a start, there's no way I'm going to be ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ clicking a "share.google" link.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2026/03/31/eeoc-lawsuit-coca-cola-bottler-discrimination/

https://twitter.com/x/status/2039055195254972744

If the shoe fits...

You've claimed the shoe always fits, which isn't exactly an evidence based approach.

 

[dirtywick]

it sounds as though the trump admin is suing because a women’s retreat is discriminatory against men. which is only a weird angle if you’re working under a framework in which their objections to dei and similar ideas and programs are honest objections and not just window dressing for their more bigoted impulses. in which case, it makes total sense.

 

[d4m10n]

it sounds as though the trump admin is suing because a women’s retreat is discriminatory against men.

Presumably the men are not allowed to attend and gain no benefits other than (again, presumably) more emotionally well-adjusted female co-workers.

which is only a weird angle if you’re working under a framework in which their objections to dei and similar ideas and programs are honest objections

I'd say it's a weird angle of attack because women's retreats seem so obviously harmless from a nonpartisan perspective. In the U.S. we're fairly used to women having their own services, spaces, and leagues.

If the EEOC wanted to prevail in court, they should've picked something more culturally marginal like racial affinity groups.

 

[dirtywick]

i agree it’s weird coming from the women need their own spaces and leagues when it comes to the trans crowd, which is the same group in this case generally.

but again, if you allow that they’re not concerned with being logically consistent or up front about their agenda i don’t think it’s that weird. if it’s not beneficial to the groups they favor, then say the magic words dei

has everything that’s changed as the result of the assault on dei and wokism resulted in a more meritorious system? if i was concerned at all about dei i’d look into answering that question. as a guy who was not concerned about dei i see a system that’s more oppressive towards minorities than it once was lead by incompetence that celebrates ignorance

 

[d4m10n]

if it’s not beneficial to the groups they favor, then say the magic words dei

Are you contending that the practice under contention in that case is not a good example of DEI?

has everything that’s changed as the result of the assault on dei and wokism resulted in a more meritorious system?

Not sure exactly how we would measure this, but the changes at MIT in particular look promising, at least from the perspective of the most meritorious subgroup (Asian Americans).

 

[W.D.Clinger]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2026/03/31/eeoc-lawsuit-coca-cola-bottler-discrimination/

https://twitter.com/x/status/2039055195254972744

Content from blocked embed:
An event offered female employees a chance to mingle with higher-ups and bond over their shared challenges in a male-dominated workplace.

According to a new lawsuit from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, it was also something else: illegal. https://t.co/AdkBXTfKNN— The Washington Post (@washingtonpost) March 31, 2026

If women's participation in an event limited to women is illegal, then it's hard to understand how women's participation in a sporting event that's limited to women could be legal.

IANAL, but it looks to me as though the exclusion of men from participation in women's sporting events will be illegal if the Trump administration wins this case. If any other administration's lawyers were bringing this lawsuit, I'd think they've lost their minds. In this administration, however, I understand how misogyny can triumph over all other considerations.

 

[dirtywick]

Are you contending that the practice under contention in that case is not a good example of DEI?

Not sure exactly how we would measure this, but the changes at MIT in particular look promising, at least from the perspective of the most meritorious subgroup (Asian Americans).

what i’m saying is that they have created a scapegoat version of dei and by invoking the term the subject they apply it to becomes automatically worthy of destruction. a great example is the chat gpt search and destroy they did via doge

 

[dirtywick]

If women's participation in an event limited to women is illegal, then it's hard to understand how women's participation in a sporting event that's limited to women could be legal.

IANAL, but it looks to me as though the exclusion of men from participation in women's sporting events will be illegal if the Trump administration wins this case. If any other administration's lawyers were bringing this lawsuit, I'd think they've lost their minds. In this administration, however, I understand how misogyny can triumph over all other considerations.

they don’t care, it only matters when they say it does and when it doesn’t make sense it doesn’t matter.

 

[d4m10n]

what i’m saying is that they have created a scapegoat version of dei

That may well be so, but I'd've thought designing an event just for women in a (relatively) male dominated corporate environment falls pretty squarely under the headings of equity and inclusion. Mainstream news articles such as the one linked above (among others) even call it that.

 

[dirtywick]

That may well be so, but I'd've thought designing an event just for women in a (relatively) male dominated corporate environment falls pretty squarely under the headings of equity and inclusion. Mainstream news articles such as the one linked above (among others) even call it that.

i think women’s retreats style events predate the widespread use of the term, and i don’t think i’d consider it affirmative action for that matter, but yeah i can see where that’s coming from.

hopefully this kind of event isn’t what the anti woke anti dei side of the debate was concerned about when they made it a national priority. obviously i think the leadership twisted dei initiatives to take advantage of the average person to get their vote and enact their own agenda. but as far as the average person goes, this should probably be concerning if you were genuinely worried about woke and dei

 

[theprestige]

it sounds as though the trump admin is suing because a women’s retreat is discriminatory against men. which is only a weird angle if you’re working under a framework in which their objections to dei and similar ideas and programs are honest objections and not just window dressing for their more bigoted impulses. in which case, it makes total sense.

Sex is a protected class. The purpose of DEI is not to deny benefits based on membership in a protected class.

Facilitating contact and communication between employees and more senior leaders in the company confers career advantages to those who are so facilitated.

I think it would be different if this were an independent, disinterested third party putting on a women's retreat, open to women in general. But since this is a single employer, giving a benefit to some employees, while denying the same benefit to other employees based on their membership in a protected class, is pretty obviously and straightforwardly illegal.

 

[thaiboxerken]

MAGA is ignoring the fact that men, as a gender, is not a marginalized class of people.

 

[theprestige]

MAGA is ignoring the fact that men, as a gender, is not a marginalized class of people.

There's nothing in our equal opportunity laws that says, "... unless you're a dude."

There's a good reason a lot of people have the impression that DEI in practice is a sexist, racist, and bigoted program.

 

[dirtywick]

Sex is a protected class. The purpose of DEI is not to deny benefits based on membership in a protected class.

Facilitating contact and communication between employees and more senior leaders in the company confers career advantages to those who are so facilitated.

I think it would be different if this were an independent, disinterested third party putting on a women's retreat, open to women in general. But since this is a single employer, giving a benefit to some employees, while denying the same benefit to other employees based on their membership in a protected class, is pretty obviously and straightforwardly illegal.

to be clear, you consider ending corporate women’s retreats a good example of the positive work of the anti dei anti woke agenda?

 

[thaiboxerken]

There's nothing in our equal opportunity laws that says, "... unless you're a dude."

There's a good reason a lot of people have the impression that DEI in practice is a sexist, racist, and bigoted program.

That good reason is.. they are bigots.

 

[theprestige]

to be clear, you consider ending corporate women’s retreats a good example of the positive work of the anti dei anti woke agenda?

You'll have to be clearer than that. Try something closer to what I actually said, and the words I actually used.

 

[theprestige]

That good reason is.. they are bigots.

The women's retreat that's being white-knighted here is explicitly sexist. Of course there's good reason to think other similar programs are similarly racist, and/or bigoted.

What's missing is any argument for why such programs should be sexist, or racist, or bigoted. dirtywick seems to think there might be a good reason for this, but they haven't really spelled it out yet.