Split Thread DEI in the US

[thaiboxerken]

Service academies don't have those.

Not yet.

 

[arthwollipot]

Politics has never ever been a meritocracy.

This whole ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ thread has been about meritocracy. Haven't you been paying attention?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Service academies don't have those.

Sure they don't, they happily tell the general that their child didn't get in.

 

[theprestige]

This whole ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ thread has been about meritocracy. Haven't you been paying attention?

I'm not the one who brought politics into it.

 

[arthwollipot]

I'm not the one who brought politics into it.

Correct. That was @wareyin, post #19:

W

Split Thread Post in thread 'DEI in the US'

Dec 4, 2025

You believe that white people get preferential treatment

They do. See: the Trump administration

and that all humans carry unconscious biases that affect hiring decisions. These supposed unconscious biases were supposedly revealed by the implicit bias test (IBT). However, results of the IBT have been shown to not correlate with hiring decisions.

Holy crap, you actually don't believe people have unconscious biases? Or that unconscious biases affect our decisions? You are aware of the 2003 study "Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field...

• wareyin

• 

 

[d4m10n]

DEI is not affirmative action.

"Other DEI policies include Affirmative Action." [source]

I was just looking over the arguments in favor of Affirmative Action in the United States and I have to say that they are not particularly distinguishable from the arguments in favor of DEI, at least so far as I can tell.

 

[arthwollipot]

Once again (I believe I have already said this a couple of times), Affirmative Action can be a policy that DEI incorporates, but it doesn't have to be. DEI is not Affirmative Action and the two are not freely interchangeable.

 

[dirtywick]

See the concluding chapter, "Demise of Affirmative Action in the Age of Diversity," in Terry H. Anderson, The Pursuit of Fairness: A History of Affirmative Action (2004) pp. 217–273.

is the source wikipedia cites

 

[Trausti]

Once again (I believe I have already said this a couple of times), Affirmative Action can be a policy that DEI incorporates, but it doesn't have to be. DEI is not Affirmative Action and the two are not freely interchangeable.

I think that's right. AA is explicitly about quotas. DEI is nebulous flimflam about invisible power structures that is so stupid only those indoctrinated in college grievance courses could believe it.

 

[arthwollipot]

I think that's right. AA is explicitly about quotas. DEI is nebulous flimflam about invisible power structures that is so stupid only those indoctrinated in college grievance courses could believe it.

No, and no.

 

[d4m10n]

DEI is not Affirmative Action and the two are not freely interchangeable.

Are there any arguments for implementing DEI which don't show up on the wiki about Affirmative Action?

 

[arthwollipot]

*sigh*

All affirmative action is DEI. Not all DEI is affirmative action.

Is that simple enough?

 

[Brainster]

No, and no.

The quota system was eventually shut down in favor of "goals and timetables", but it was explicitly a part of the Affirmative Action program at UC Davis, which led to the Bakke decision:

Justice Lewis Powell, who wrote the pivotal opinion in the case, struck down the affirmative action program at UC Davis’s medical school because it used a quota for minority admissions, but also upheld the constitutionality of considering race....

This article is from the Nation, which is reliably left of left of center.

 

[arthwollipot]

A poor implementation (or a misnamed programme), if it explicitly tried to uphold quotas. How long ago was that?

 

[d4m10n]

All affirmative action is DEI. Not all DEI is affirmative action.

Bearing in mind that Affirmative action in the United States^WP is a much broader phenomenon than racial quotas, what would you consider a good example of DEI that we would not find discussed on the affirmative action wiki? From what I can tell, DEI is basically just a rebranding of the original AA concept promulgated by JFK, but I'm happy to overcome my skepticism if we can find a few couple examples of non-AA DEI.

 

[theprestige]

A poor implementation (or a misnamed programme), if it explicitly tried to uphold quotas. How long ago was that?

You keep getting told that DEI in America is poor implementations and misnamed programs all the way down. You're bound to internalize this information sooner or later.

 

[jt512]

A poor implementation (or a misnamed programme), if it explicitly tried to uphold quotas. How long ago was that?

It is ongoing. MIT, for example, intentionally enrolls roughly equal numbers of male and female applicants despite the number of male applicants being at least double the number of females.

 

[thaiboxerken]

blah blah blah. We all know the biggest concern for the anti-DEI people is that is a roadblock in the path to apartheid.

 

[d4m10n]

We all know the biggest concern for the anti-DEI people is that is a roadblock in the path to apartheid.

Big if true.

 

[arthwollipot]

Bearing in mind that Affirmative action in the United States^WP is a much broader phenomenon than racial quotas, what would you consider a good example of DEI that we would not find discussed on the affirmative action wiki? From what I can tell, DEI is basically just a rebranding of the original AA concept promulgated by JFK, but I'm happy to overcome my skepticism if we can find a few couple examples of non-AA DEI.

I've already linked - several times - to the Australian Public Service diversity and inclusion policy. And yet I keep being asked to provide an example. I'm not going to link to it again. If you missed it the first three times, you're motivated to miss it the next time too.