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Deeper than primes

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By using a cross-contexts reasoning, let us use Cantor's construction method in order to define a 1-to-1 correspondence between natural numbers and any set of different objects.

The nonsense I've high-lighted needs to be challenged, too. Neither Cantor's Theorem nor its standard "diagonal method" proof offer a construction method for 1-to-1 relationships. This is just something Doron made up, He made it up because--no surprise--he doesn't understand Cantor's Theorem at all, nor its proof.

The proof begins with the assumption a mapping exists. It then exploits the existence of the mapping to uncover a contradiction.
 
The ? is permanent exactly because being binominal is the probability of itself.

In the case of <0,1> form the probability that ?=0 or 1 is 1:2 .

It is actually "binomial" and not seemingly logical "binominal."

The binomial coefficient lives in the field of combinatorics, but it is often used to compute probabilities. Of course, OM walks on a different road built by context-independent thinking and no step-by-step progression. Hence "being binominal is the probability itself."

Strangely enough, the context-independent thinking failed to kick in here,
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5214/...82feb9e5_b.jpg
coz those 16 question marks can be replaced by "1, 2, 3, ..., 15, 16."

You assigned correctly two colors to 1 and 0 in the 24 case, but then your mind must have wandered elsewhere . . .
 
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The ? is permanent exactly because being binominal is the probability of itself.

“the probability of itself”? What, as opposed to being “the probability of” something else? Figured that out all by yourself did ya. Oh, and guess what the probability of something “is the probability of itself” even if it aien’t “binominal”.


In the case of <0,1> form the probability that ?=0 or 1 is 1:2 .

In the case of the natural numbers…



The probability that any natural number is included in the set of all natural number is 1 the probability that it is not is 0. “under the laws of probability” you’ve still got nothing to ‘increase’ in the set of all natural numbers.





The Man you maybe have the chance, this time really really try to understand what is shown AND written in [qimg]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5214/5480734023_6482feb9e5_b.jpg[/qimg]

Doron you still and have always had the chance to learn what ‘increasing’ means, any time you’re ready to do so.



The Man you still do not grasp the accurate meaning of increasing as a present continuous.

I known exactly what the word increasing means whether it is past, present, intermittent, continuous, conditional, unconditional, justifiable, unwarranted or whatever combination of words you want to throw after it.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/increasing
 
I known exactly what the word increasing means whether it is past, present, intermittent, continuous, conditional, unconditional, justifiable, unwarranted or whatever combination of words you want to throw after it.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/increasing

The Unabridged OM Dictionary

when 1 represents Increment
then 0 must be Excrement
the size of 1 is just one bit
but 0 always = sh-t
 
Which, of course, I did. S was the set, {A}, and so P(S) was the set, {{},{A}}. P(S) was a set of two members, {} and {A}.

The failure was yours when you claimed to have a bijection between this simple power set, P(S), and the natural numbers. Your mapping wasn't a bijection at all, but it did expose your most recent claims as the load of rotted dingo entrails they actually are.
The failure is your reasoning, which can't grasp Cantor's construction method that explicitly defines (without missing) the P(S) members and their 1-to-1 correspondence with the natural numbers, exactly as shown in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6925404&postcount=14419.

As for your {{},{A}} case, Cantor's construction method is used as follows:

Round 1 case:
-----------------------
A ↔ {A} | Provides {} ↔ 1
-----------------------

Round 2 case:
-----------------------
A ↔ { } | Provides {A} ↔ 2
-----------------------

and, walla, there is a 1-to-1 correspondence between the natural numbers and the members of {{},{A}}.

The nonsense I've high-lighted needs to be challenged, too. Neither Cantor's Theorem nor its standard "diagonal method" proof offer a construction method for 1-to-1 relationships. This is just something Doron made up, He made it up because--no surprise--he doesn't understand Cantor's Theorem at all, nor its proof.

The proof begins with the assumption a mapping exists. It then exploits the existence of the mapping to uncover a contradiction.
Cantor's construction method works between:

S and P(S)

P(S) and P(P(S))

P(P(S)) and P(P(P(S)))

...

etc. ad infinitum, and there is a 1-to-1 correspondence with the natural numbers and:

P(S), P(P(S)), P(P(P(S))) , ... etc. ad infinitum.
 
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The failure is your reasoning, which can't grasp Cantor's construction method that explicitly defines (without missing) the P(S) members and their 1-to-1 correspondence with the natural numbers, exactly as shown in http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6925404&postcount=14419.

Please, show us, then, exactly where in the proof to Cantor's Theorem there is this construction method. For that matter, just show us where in the proof the natural numbers even appear. Be sure to cite your reference since you are prone to invention without basis.

...and, walla, there is a 1-to-1 correspondence between the natural numbers and the members of {{},{A}}.

First, you got the correspondence exactly backwards. The mapping you produced is injective from the set members to the natural numbers, not the other way around.

Second, leave the goal posts alone. The task was to produce a bijection between the natural numbers and the power set of {A}. You claimed it existed. You have failed each time trying to exhibit it. You have now added one more failure to the list.
 
In the case of the natural numbers…
You are missing the 1:2 probability of <0,1> bits of ? value of the following ever increasing tree:

5480734023_6482feb9e5_b.jpg


I known exactly what the word increasing means whether it is past, present, intermittent, continuous, conditional, unconditional, justifiable, unwarranted or whatever combination of words you want to throw after it.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/increasing
No The Man, you don't know.

There is no past (before) and no future (after) at present continuous ever increasing tree.
 
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Please, show us, then, exactly where in the proof to Cantor's Theorem there is this construction method. For that matter, just show us where in the proof the natural numbers even appear. Be sure to cite your reference since you are prone to invention without basis.
You don't like the base 10 symbols of natural numbers, so use "1","2","3", ... instated, it does not matter.

What matters is the fact that P(S) is countable.


jsfisher said:
First, you got the correspondence exactly backwards. The mapping you produced is injective from the set members to the natural numbers, not the other way around.
By Cantor's construction method, we do not miss even a single P(S) member, so by using this simple fact the order of the mapping is not significant.

jsfisher said:
Second, leave the goal posts alone. The task was to produce a bijection between the natural numbers and the power set of {A}. You claimed it existed. You have failed each time trying to exhibit it.
No, you are missing Cantor's construction method, which enables to define a bijection between the natural numbers and any powerset degree (finite or not).
 
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Please, show us, then, exactly where in the proof to Cantor's Theorem there is this construction method. For that matter, just show us where in the proof the natural numbers even appear. Be sure to cite your reference since you are prone to invention without basis.
You don't like the base 10 symbols of natural numbers, so use "1","2","3", ... instated, it does not matter.

You left out the part where you were supposed to show where in the proof of Cantor's Theorem this construction method occurs. Nice evasion, though, but the proof doesn't use any fixed reference set as you seem to believe.

...
jsfisher said:
First, you got the correspondence exactly backwards. The mapping you produced is injective from the set members to the natural numbers, not the other way around.
By Cantor's construction method
That would be the method you have failed to show exists.
...we do not miss even a single P(S) member, so by using this simple fact the order of the mapping is not significant.

Of course it is significant. An injection from P(S) to N is significantly different from an injection from N to P(S). And you'd need both to claim a bijection existed between the two.

jsfisher said:
Second, leave the goal posts alone. The task was to produce a bijection between the natural numbers and the power set of {A}. You claimed it existed. You have failed each time trying to exhibit one.
No, you are missing Cantor's construction method
That still being the method you have failed to show exists.
...which enables to define a bijection between the natural numbers and any powerset degree (finite or not).

And yet, you have repeatedly failed trying to show a bijection between N and P(S) (or S and P(S)) for the simple case, S = {A}. Why is that?
 
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Unless Cantor's construction method is a tool of the used kit ( see http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6928606#post6928606 ).
Your reference shows the same post where you made the reference. Is this some demonstration of "infinite totality" aka can't move my butt anywhere?

Can you follow upon an example?

S = {a, b, c}

*S = { {a}, {b}, {c}, {a,b}, {a,c}, {b,c}, S, {} }
N = {....1.....2......3......4........5........6.....7..8..}

|N| = 2|S|
Now do the counting when |S| = aleph null.
 
You are missing the 1:2 probability of <0,1> bits of ? value of the following ever increasing tree:

[qimg]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5214/5480734023_6482feb9e5_b.jpg[/qimg]

No I’m not. You want to guess some “<0,1> bits of ? value” on your “ever increasing tree:”. By all means, please be my guest. It doesn’t change the fact that…

The probability that any natural number is included in the set of all natural number is 1 the probability that it is not is 0. “under the laws of probability” you’ve still got nothing to ‘increase’ in the set of all natural numbers.




No The Man, you don't know.

There is no past (before) and no future (after) at present continuous ever increasing tree.

So now your “present continuous ever increasing tree” isn’t increasing as it wasn’t at some lower value in the past and then at some higher value in the future. Once again Doron you simply remain the staunchest opponent of just your own notions. By all means please explain to us the difference between increasing and decreasing with “no past (before) and no future (after)”?
 
In the case of <0,1> form the probability that ?=0 or 1 is 1:2 .

Suppose that 0 stands for "apart." Since 0 and 1 are opposites, like absence and presence, 1 stands for "together." Framed into a context below, the probabilities are not that trivial as "1:2."

elipsepool10.png


What is the probability that the moving red ball hits the stationary yellow ball before the red ball bounces 10 times off the edges of the elliptical pool table, when the initial shot is randomly oriented? If you have the concept solution ready by tomorrow, I give you the dimensions. Stop being a sissy and get your hands dirty for a sec.
 
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You left out the part where you were supposed to show where in the proof of Cantor's Theorem this construction method occurs. Nice evasion, though, but the proof doesn't use any fixed reference set as you seem to believe.


That would be the method you have failed to show exists.


Of course it is significant. An injection from P(S) to N is significantly different from an injection from N to P(S). And you'd need both to claim a bijection existed between the two.


That still being the method you have failed to show exists.


And yet, you have repeatedly failed trying to show a bijection between N and P(S) (or S and P(S)) for the simple case, S = {A}. Why is that?
jsfisher, you are failing to get http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6928575&postcount=14425, and I also showed in previous posts that you do not get it because your reasoning is closed under X^2 matrix.

It is about time to ask yourself "Why is that?"
 
jsfisher, you are failing to get http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6928575&postcount=14425, and I also showed in previous posts that you do not get it because your reasoning is closed under X^2 matrix.

It is about time to ask yourself "Why is that?"

The "why is that?" is simple. Your post is nonsense. You are stuck on a falsehood that you simply made up. Cantor's theorem does do what you claim. The mappings you've presented as bijective aren't.

Here. Since you can't seem to find a copy of it, here's a proof for Cantor's Theorem. Please point out the construction method you claim it has for making these mappings that aren't bijective.

Cantor's Theorem: For any set, S, and its power set, P(S):
|S| < |P(S)|​
where the cardinality ordering is based on mapping functions: |A| <= |B| iff there exists an injective mapping from A to B, and |A| = |B| iff there exists a bijective (injective and surjective) mapping from A to B.

Proof:

There is a trivial injective mapping, f(X)->{X}, from S to P(S), so we know |S| <= |P(S)|. It is sufficent, then, to show there is no surjective mapping, g(), from S to P(S).

1. Assume g() exists. That is, for any B in P(S) there is an A in S such that g(A) -> B.

2. Let C = { X in S | X not in g(X) }.

3. C is a subset of S, and therefore C is in P(S).

4. Since g() is surjective from S to P(S), there must exist some Y in S such that g(Y) -> C.

5. Either Y is in C or Y is not in C. If Y is in C then Y is in g(Y) and, by definition of C, Y cannot be in C. So, Y cannot be in C. Then, Y is not in g(y), and therefore, by definition of C, Y must be in C.

6. The existence of Y leads to a contradiction. Therefore, the assumption that g() exists leads to a contradiction. Therefore, g() does not exist.

7. Since there is no surjective mapping from S to P(S), |S| must be strictly less than |P(S)|.
 
No I’m not. You want to guess some “<0,1> bits of ? value” on your “ever increasing tree:”. By all means, please be my guest.
As your guest I am saying to you that the set of natural number is ever increasing (the term "all" is not satisfied) exactly as the set of powersets is ever increasing (the term "all" is not satisfied).

Furthermore, Russell's paradox is also an example of the logical inability to determine the exact size of a given infinite set (it is always less or more than any attempt to define its exact size).
 
The "why is that?" is simple. Your post is nonsense. You are stuck on a falsehood that you simply made up. Cantor's theorem does do what you claim. The mappings you've presented as bijective aren't.

Here. Since you can't seem to find a copy of it, here's a proof for Cantor's Theorem. Please point out the construction method you claim it has for making these mappings that aren't bijective.

Cantor's Theorem: For any set, S, and its power set, P(S):
|S| < |P(S)|​
where the cardinality ordering is based on mapping functions: |A| <= |B| iff there exists an injective mapping from A to B, and |A| = |B| iff there exists a bijective (injective and surjective) mapping from A to B.

Proof:

There is a trivial injective mapping, f(X)->{X}, from S to P(S), so we know |S| <= |P(S)|. It is sufficent, then, to show there is no surjective mapping, g(), from S to P(S).

1. Assume g() exists. That is, for any B in P(S) there is an A in S such that g(A) -> B.

2. Let C = { X in S | X not in g(X) }.

3. C is a subset of S, and therefore C is in P(S).

4. Since g() is surjective from S to P(S), there must exist some Y in S such that g(Y) -> C.

5. Either Y is in C or Y is not in C. If Y is in C then Y is in g(Y) and, by definition of C, Y cannot be in C. So, Y cannot be in C. Then, Y is not in g(y), and therefore, by definition of C, Y must be in C.

6. The existence of Y leads to a contradiction. Therefore, the assumption that g() exists leads to a contradiction. Therefore, g() does not exist.

7. Since there is no surjective mapping from S to P(S), |S| must be strictly less than |P(S)|.
Once again you ignore Cantor's construction method of P(S) members, which actually enables to define a 1-to-1 correspondence between S and P(S) members, by using this construction |P(S)| times.

Actually by Cantor's construction method:

S ↔ P(S)

P(S) ↔ P(P(S))

P(P(S)) ↔ P(P(P(S)))

...

etc. ad infinitum ...

You are stuck under X^2 single box.
 
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Once again you ignore Cantor's construction method of P(S) members


Ok, so now it is Cantor's construction method for P(). Fine. Just where do you see that? It is not in the proof anywhere. We all think you are just making stuff up.
 
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