Deeper than primes

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Did you miss the part “and it lacks gaps in the sense that every non-empty subset with an upper bound has a least upper bound.”?
Did you miss the notion that the least upper bound is not any of the other members of the non-empty subset, exactly because there is an invariant gap on finitely many scales that enables to save the unique values of both the least upper bound and any arbitrary member of the subset?

The existence of this arbitrary pair of unique values is impossible without the invariant non-locality (the room) between them.

Again we show that by your reasoning the internal structure (the complexity) of the non-empty subst is ignored, and it is compared only by its name to the least upper bound.
 
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Your fantasy and gibberish is no substitute for mathematics. Keep trying, though.
Your fantasy and gibberish that is based on local-only reasoning where Complexity is ignored (only the given name of some complexity is considered by your local-only reasoning) is no substitute for mathematics. Keep trying, though.

The rest of your post is a direct result of your limited reasoning.
 
Complexity is partially used by the current community of mathematicians because any given member of some set is reduced to some unique name, such that its internal complexity is ignored.

By using this approach, Cardinality is the number of the unique names that belong to some set.

If set A is determined by some common property, then any set that has that property is a member of set A, such that its members are ignored and only the name of the belonged set is considered.

Some examples:

The set of all ideas, called X, is itself an idea. In that case X={X, idea_a, idea_b, idea_c, …}, where “X” in “{X, idea_a, idea_b, idea_c, …}” is only the name of set X.

Since the internal complexity of X as a member of X is ignored (only its name is considered as a member of X) we artificially avoid the non-finite regression of the internal complexity of set X, that actually prevents the completeness of X.

The set of all oranges, called Y, is not itself an orange. In that case Y={ orenge_a, orange_b, orange_c,…}, where “Y” is not one of the names that belong to set Y.

In that case there is no non-finite regression, but also in this case no member of set Y is its final member if Y is a non-finite set (this non-final state is equivalent to non-finite regression, because in both cases no level or member are final cases of the considered set), so in both cases, the term “all” cannot be related to non-finite sets.

Definition 1: “Z is the set of all sets that are not their own members.”

By definition 1, If Z is not its own member then the name “Z” must be one of the members, but then Z is not the set of all sets that are not their own members, because the name “Z” is one of the members.

Let us use Stanford's description ( http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/russell-paradox/ ):

"Russell's paradox is the most famous of the logical or set-theoretical paradoxes. The paradox arises within naive set theory by considering the set of all sets that are not members of themselves. Such a set appears to be a member of itself if and only if it is not a member of itself, hence the paradox."

If Z's name is a member of set Z, then set Z is not "the set of all sets that are not their own members" and we cannot conclude anything about some set that includes its name as its member and about Definition 1, as wrongly appears in Stanford's description.

The problem appears only in the case that Z's name must but can't be a member of set Z, and as we show, the problem is at the definition and not in set Z because of the term "all” that appears in Definition 1.

The term “all” is not satisfied in both cases, whether the name “Z” is a member or not a member of set Z. In that case we can conclude that Definition 1 does not hold and set Z is not well-defined if the term “all” is included in the definition.

Conclusion:

The universal quantifier “for all” is valid only if any member of some set can be considered as its final member.

By using this notion the following definition holds:

Definition 1: “Z is the set of sets that are not their own members.”

This definition holds because:

Since the term “all” is avoided, then Z’s name is not necessarily one of the members of set Z, and also set Z is incomplete if it is a non-finite set (no one of its members is its final member).

Let us research the finite case by assuming that there are finitely many sets that are not their own members:

Definition 1: “Z is the set of all sets that are not their own members.”

In this case the term “all” is valid since each member of set Z is its final member.

By definition 1, If Z is not its own member then the name “Z” must be one of the finitely many members, but then Z is not the set of all finitely many sets that are not their own members, because the name “Z” is one of the members.

Definition 1 does not hold also in the finite case since the term “all” leads to self reference that causes a paradox.
Let us summarize:

In the case of infinite sets the term “all” is invalid because no member of a given non-finite set is its final member.

In the case of finite sets, definitions that are using the term “all” that leads to self reference that causes paradoxes, these definitions are invalid and are not parts of a consistent mathematical framework.

The universal set does not exist not because of Russell’s paradox, but because any infinite set is incomplete (the term “all” is invalid in the case of infinite sets).

In the case of finite sets, where the term “all” can be used (but then we do not deal with the universal set), there are definitions that lead to paradox because of the term "all", but then these definitions are not parts of a consistent mathematical framework.

So in both cases (the finite and the non-finite) Russell’s paradox has a very minor impact on Set theory.
 
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1/3 or 1 are local numbers where 0.333... or 0.999... a non-local numbers.

What is the difference between those? If you divide 1 by 3, you get 0.333...
1 / 3 represents the division of 1 by 3. Ergo, 1 / 3 is 0.333...

So then, what is the difference between a local and a non-local number?


I will do no such thing. My time is too precious for your inane babbling.
 
Did you miss the notion that the least upper bound is not any of the other members of the non-empty subset, exactly because there is an invariant gap on finitely many scales that enables to save the unique values of both the least upper bound and any arbitrary member of the subset?

What “notion” would that be? Although nothing in general prevents a least upper bound of a subset from not being part of the subset that would make that set an open set. In a closed set the least upper bound is a member of that set (that is why it is closed). If your only point is that an open set is not closed, that is again simply trivial.

ETA: How is a "gap on finitely many scales" "invariant"?

The existence of this arbitrary pair of unique values is impossible without the invariant non-locality (the room) between them.

Again we show that by your reasoning the internal structure (the complexity) of the non-empty subst is ignored, and it is compared only by its name to the least upper bound.

So what is “invariant” between the “arbitrary pair of unique values” [2,5] and between the “arbitrary pair of unique values” [20,50]? If you claim that it is that fact that they represent infinite sets (or your ‘”non-locality”) then it is simply you ignoring “the internal structure (the complexity) of the non-empty subst”s in order to claim your ‘invariance’. Your “room” is only “invariant” if you ignore “the internal structure (the complexity) of” that “room”. Stop trying to pawn off the limitations of you and your notions as the failings of others.
 
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You do nothing because your reasoning is local-only.

Demonstrating an obvious flaw in your reasoning of my reasoning, which I must not do since I “do nothing”. Is it even possible for you to construct a simple sentence that is not a direct contradiction of itself or simply trivial?
 
Complexity is partially used by the current community of mathematicians because any given member of some set is reduced to some unique name, such that its internal complexity is ignored.

By using this approach, Cardinality is the number of the unique names that belong to some set.

If set A is determined by some common property, then any set that has that property is a member of set A, such that its members are ignored and only the name of the belonged set is considered.

Some examples:

The set of all ideas, called X, is itself an idea. In that case X={X, idea_a, idea_b, idea_c, …}, where “X” in “{X, idea_a, idea_b, idea_c, …}” is only the name of set X.

Since the internal complexity of X as a member of X is ignored (only its name is considered as a member of X) we artificially avoid the non-finite regression of the internal complexity of set X, that actually prevents the completeness of X.

The set of all oranges, called Y, is not itself an orange. In that case Y={ orenge_a, orange_b, orange_c,…}, where “Y” is not one of the names that belong to set Y.

In that case there is no non-finite regression, but also in this case no member of set Y is its final member if Y is a non-finite set (this non-final state is equivalent to non-finite regression, because in both cases no level or member are final cases of the considered set), so in both cases, the term “all” cannot be related to non-finite sets.

Definition 1: “Z is the set of all sets that are not their own members.”

By definition 1, If Z is not its own member then the name “Z” must be one of the members, but then Z is not the set of all sets that are not their own members, because the name “Z” is one of the members.

Let us use Stanford's description ( http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/russell-paradox/ ):

"Russell's paradox is the most famous of the logical or set-theoretical paradoxes. The paradox arises within naive set theory by considering the set of all sets that are not members of themselves. Such a set appears to be a member of itself if and only if it is not a member of itself, hence the paradox."

If Z's name is a member of set Z, then set Z is not "the set of all sets that are not their own members" and we cannot conclude anything about some set that includes its name as its member and about Definition 1, as wrongly appears in Stanford's description.

The problem appears only in the case that Z's name must but can't be a member of set Z, and as we show, the problem is at the definition and not in set Z because of the term "all” that appears in Definition 1.

The term “all” is not satisfied in both cases, whether the name “Z” is a member or not a member of set Z. In that case we can conclude that Definition 1 does not hold and set Z is not well-defined if the term “all” is included in the definition.

Conclusion:

The universal quantifier “for all” is valid only if any member of some set can be considered as its final member.

By using this notion the following definition holds:

Definition 1: “Z is the set of sets that are not their own members.”

This definition holds because:

Since the term “all” is avoided, then Z’s name is not necessarily one of the members of set Z, and also set Z is incomplete if it is a non-finite set (no one of its members is its final member).

Let us research the finite case by assuming that there are finitely many sets that are not their own members:

Definition 1: “Z is the set of all sets that are not their own members.”

In this case the term “all” is valid since each member of set Z is its final member.

By definition 1, If Z is not its own member then the name “Z” must be one of the finitely many members, but then Z is not the set of all finitely many sets that are not their own members, because the name “Z” is one of the members.

Definition 1 does not hold also in the finite case since the term “all” leads to self reference that causes a paradox.
Let us summarize:

In the case of infinite sets the term “all” is invalid because no member of a given non-finite set is its final member.

In the case of finite sets, definitions that are using the term “all” that leads to self reference that causes paradoxes, these definitions are invalid and are not parts of a consistent mathematical framework.

The universal set does not exist not because of Russell’s paradox, but because any infinite set is incomplete (the term “all” is invalid in the case of infinite sets).

In the case of finite sets, where the term “all” can be used (but then we do not deal with the universal set), there are definitions that lead to paradox because of the term "all", but then these definitions are not parts of a consistent mathematical framework.

So in both cases (the finite and the non-finite) Russell’s paradox has a very minor impact on Set theory.

As Russell’s paradox only leads to contradiction in naïve set theory;

Conclusion:

Doron’s notions about set theory are simply naïve (but of course we have been over this many times before).
 
The Man said:
What “notion” would that be? Although nothing in general prevents a least upper bound of a subset from not being part of the subset that would make that set an open set. In a closed set the least upper bound is a member of that set (that is why it is closed). If your only point is that an open set is not closed, that is again simply trivial.
No, both open and closed sets have a room between any arbitrary two different points upon infinitely many scale levels, and as a result no point is a final point (there is always a room for more points) of the collection of infinitely many distinct points.

In other words, no collection of 0-dim elements can be (can totally cover) a 1-dim element, and as a result the collection of 0-dim elements is incomplete and this is exactly the meaning of to be a non-finite collection (no element of such a collection is its final element).

Your local-only reasoning can’t get this notion.

The Man said:
So what is “invariant” between the “arbitrary pair of unique values” [2,5] and between the “arbitrary pair of unique values” [20,50]? If you claim that it is that fact that they represent infinite sets (or your ‘”non-locality”) then it is simply you ignoring “the internal structure (the complexity) of the non-empty subst”s in order to claim your ‘invariance’. Your “room” is only “invariant” if you ignore “the internal structure (the complexity) of” that “room”. Stop trying to pawn off the limitations of you and your notions as the failings of others.
By your local-only reasoning you simply unable to get the notion that no amount of 0-dim elements can be a 1-dim element and because of this simple fact there are both lines and points no matter how infinitely many scales there are.

In other words the existence of both lines and points is invariant w.r.t infinitely many scales (= non-finite interpolation).

This invariance is exactly the basis of the existence of non-finite complexity,which is the result of the linkage between infinitely many points AND lines, but your local-only reasoning (where only points are considered and therefore no complexity is found) and your finite exaples can’t get it.
 
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So bye bye.

Are you going somewhere? Just because I won't read your senseless dribble that doesn't mean I won't participate in this thread. I guess you consider it's your thread. You're wrong.

ETA: You also avoided my questions. I didn't expect otherwise.
 
1/3 or 1 are local numbers where 0.333... or 0.999... a non-local numbers.

For more details see http://www.scribd.com/doc/17039028/OMDP or http://www.scribd.com/doc/16542245/OMPT (at least pages 11-12).

Let's look how you misunderstand Cardinality using that second "paper" at the top of page 3:
Let X be a placeholder for any thinkable thing. X can be measured by using Set as a measurement tool, where Cardinal is the measurement unit. For example, the ZF axiom of the Empty Set states that: "There exists set A such that any set (including A) is not a member of A". By OM this axiom is understood as follows: "There exists set A" means that if set A is measured as a member of some set, for example B ={A}, then the cardinal of B is at least 1. We do not measure here the cardinal of the members of set A, but we measure here the cardinal of the members of set B, and by doing that we define the measurement unit of the existence of set A, which is not less than cardinal 1.

If you are looking for the Cardinality of set A, why are you introducing set B? It's like you're translating English to Spanish to Russian. Why not just translate English to Russian directly?

Also, you never answered the questions directly. The Yes/No questions are:

1. is 1 / 3 = 0.3333... ?
2. is 0.9999... = 0.3333... * 3 ?
3. is 1 / 3 * 3 = 1 ?

We weren't asking if they were local/non-local.

Here's another question that you missed: Please provide anything independent from you that has shown the effects of OM.

Complexity is partially used by the current community of mathematicians because any given member of some set is reduced to some unique name, such that its internal complexity is ignored.

By using this approach, Cardinality is the number of the unique names that belong to some set.
Nope. Basically, cardinality is the number of elements of a set.

If set A is determined by some common property, then any set that has that property is a member of set A, such that its members are ignored and only the name of the belonged set is considered.
Now that is plain silly. If I have a set of "All square books", why would a different set have those same elements? I mean, the set of "All books" would include square books, but "All square books" would not have "All books". Or better yet: If I have a set of "All square books", why would there be another set of "All square books"?

Some examples:

The set of all ideas, called X, is itself an idea. In that case X={X, idea_a, idea_b, idea_c, …}, where “X” in “{X, idea_a, idea_b, idea_c, …}” is only the name of set X.
Nope. You have already defined X as the set of all ideas. In additon, a set is not a member of itself.

Since the internal complexity of X as a member of X is ignored (only its name is considered as a member of X) we artificially avoid the non-finite regression of the internal complexity of set X, that actually prevents the completeness of X.
Please re-define complexity and define internal complexity. Also, once again, the set X is not a member of itself.

The set of all oranges, called Y, is not itself an orange. In that case Y={ orenge_a, orange_b, orange_c,…}, where “Y” is not one of the names that belong to set Y.
Wrong. If I start giving each element of set Y a letter designation, I will have element Y in set Y.

In that case there is no non-finite regression, but also in this case no member of set Y is its final member if Y is a non-finite set (this non-final state is equivalent to non-finite regression, because in both cases no level or member are final cases of the considered set), so in both cases, the term “all” cannot be related to non-finite sets.
This does not apply since a set cannot be a member of itself.

Definition 1: “Z is the set of all sets that are not their own members.”

By definition 1, If Z is not its own member then the name “Z” must be one of the members, but then Z is not the set of all sets that are not their own members, because the name “Z” is one of the members.
Once again, you are confusing the name "Z" with set Z. The rest of your post follows the same logic. You confuse the name of a set with a name of an element of that same set.
 
No, both open and closed sets have a room between any arbitrary two different points upon infinitely many scale levels, and as a result no point is a final point (there is always a room for more points) of the collection of infinitely many distinct points.

In other words, no collection of 0-dim elements can be (can totally cover) a 1-dim element, and as a result the collection of 0-dim elements is incomplete and this is exactly the meaning of to be a non-finite collection (no element of such a collection is its final element).

Your local-only reasoning can’t get this notion.

Again if you think there are gaps then show where they are located simply claiming the locations of your gap are “unknown” clearly demonstrates that you can not show any such gaps.

By your local-only reasoning you simply unable to get the notion that no amount of 0-dim elements can be a 1-dim element and because of this simple fact there are both lines and points no matter how infinitely many scales there are.

In other words the existence of both lines and points is invariant w.r.t infinitely many scales (= non-finite interpolation).

This invariance is exactly the basis of the existence of non-finite complexity,which is the result of the linkage between infinitely many points AND lines, but your local-only reasoning (where only points are considered and therefore no complexity is found) and your finite exaples can’t get it.


Again with the strawmen and word salad Doron.

ETA:

Also claiming that “the existence of both lines and points is invariant” simply confirms that you do ignore the “complexity” of your “room” in regard to that “existence” (any chance of you giving any meaning to your use of that word anytime soon).
 
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doronshadmi said:
0.999... is not a number that represents number 1
Yes I know. This is my typo mistake.

It has to be: "0.999... is not a numeral that represents number 1"

0.999... is a non-local number where the non-local number 0.000...1 is the complement to the local number 1.000...

Prove it. That should be a simple task. All you need do is define what it means to be a non-local number (or its complement, a local number), then show how 0.999... has the property that 1.0 doesn't have.

Who knows, may be you can something sensible out of your invention, 0.000...1.

The rest of your post is a poor propaganda, which is based on your ignorance of Non-locality as one of the building-blocks of the mathematical science.

As a result your local-only reasoning gets OM's reasoning as an inconsistent framework.

The your post in question was one of your posts, not mine, so I agree with you about its quality and about the ignorance and poor reasoning of the poster.
 
Complexity is partially used by the current community of mathematicians because any given member of some set is reduced to some unique name, such that its internal complexity is ignored.

Gibberish.

By using this approach, Cardinality is the number of the unique names that belong to some set.

No, cardinality has nothing to do with names, unique or otherwise.

If set A is determined by some common property, then any set that has that property is a member of set A

If you are trying to reference the Axiom Schema of Restricted Comprehension, then why not just say so?

...such that its members are ignored and only the name of the belonged set is considered.

...then you could avoid meaningless gibberish like this.

Be that as it may, since your misrepresentation of the axiom was the basis for the rest of your post, everything that followed is rendered meaningless. Try again.
 
I think I got it...

Our reasoning is local, i.e. pertaining to the real world.

doron's is not, hence non-local.

Would explain a lot... :D
 
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