death penalty please

[karl]

[...]
Here's my enlightened, merciful solution that gets back to my "rupturing the social contract" argument earlier. You take the vicious killers and exile them (there's gotta be a few islands somewhere...). You tell them that we (society) wash our hands of them - they are on their own, whether they live or die is of no concern to us, because they have irredeemably ruptured the social contract. We will neither help them survive nor attempt any harm to them, since we have no further obligation to them. As long as they don't come back. If they come back, they're executed. Not for revenge, but just because we have the right to protect ourselves.

There are no such islands on the planet. The place would be accessible to any outsider capable of financing an expedition there -- for example someone intending to profit from springing the convicts. US authorities would have to guard the island against intruders 24 hours a day. And in order for that to be legal, I assume the island would need to be US soil, which would mean you had certain obligations to your citizens there -- such as providing health care and law enforcement. Effectively you would end up with just another prison.

If you don't care whether they escape from the island, this wouldn't be a problem, of course. Just drop them off. But I don't see how you could prevent them from coming back. Wouldn't you need to re-write quite a bit of international and domestic law in order to execute a US citizen for entering the US?

 

[Mr Manifesto]

Hey, where'd NTW go? He pulls the pin on this little thread grenade, tosses it in our midst, then runs off.

Which is a pity, because I'd be interested to hear why he thinks his graph isn't a worthless pile of crap.

 

[BPSCG]

There are no such islands on the planet.

What do you mean? There are plenty of islands. Might have to compensate a few property owners to persuade them to relocate, but that should be a one-time, fixed expense. I have no objection to being quite liberal about the price.

The place would be accessible to any outsider capable of financing an expedition there -- for example someone intending to profit from springing the convicts.

Okay; so what? As long as they don't come back here, that's not our problem. And I assume you wouldn't let them into Sweden without the proper passports and visas, would you?

US authorities would have to guard the island against intruders 24 hours a day.

Why?

And in order for that to be legal, I assume the island would need to be US soil, which would mean you had certain obligations to your citizens there -- such as providing health care and law enforcement.

Nope. "You've irredeemably broken the social contract. We no longer have any obligations to you. We won't harm you as long as you don't come back, but we're not going to provide you with any kind of protection whatsoever." Might require the passing of some legislation, and of course the civil rights groups would challenge it, but after getting past the legal hurdles, I think it would be totally workable. Think Elba or St. Helena, but with a bunch of social misfits rather than Napoleon Bonaparte. Or Australia. They began with a bunch of social "undesireables", but turned out rather well (though I'm sure no sane person would bet on that kind of outcome). (Apologies to anyone in the southern hemisphere whose national history I've misunderstood.)

Effectively you would end up with just another prison.

Yeah, but one that wouldn't cost us much.

If you don't care whether they escape from the island, this wouldn't be a problem, of course. Just drop them off. But I don't see how you could prevent them from coming back.

"If you come back, we'll shoot you" should work as a powerful deterrent.

 

[a_unique_person]

I read an article from the Hare Krishna's, claiming they are responsible for the drop in crime.

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

I read an article from the Hare Krishna's, claiming they are responsible for the drop in crime.

Yeah. Their chanting builds up a charge of positive karma, which they share. The TM folks claim the same in the sphere of international relations.

"Visualize world peace", doesn't mean desire it or agitate for it. They literally believe that world peace will come from a sufficiency of "visualization".

That the death penalty sparingly applied works, I believe is true. I'm in favor of it and think that in a very few cases, it is necessary not just acceptable.

But ultimately it is a moral issue, not a question of whether it works. Not "the ends justify the means". In a few cases the death penalty is the only moral course of action.

Is it over-used in the USA? Yes. Let's take that off the table in answering me.

It is a basic difference in moral outlook.

 

[karl]

Okay; so what? As long as they don't come back here, that's not our problem. And I assume you wouldn't let them into Sweden without the proper passports and visas, would you?

Dude, we'd be REQUIRED to. Facing certain death in one's home country is valid grounds for humanitarian refuge here, and in plenty of other nations.

The net effect of the ship-them-off-to-an-island solution is exactly the same as if you had allowed them to escape to someplace with generous social benefits and no extradition treaty.