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Merged DDWFTTW in a “Real” Wind

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humber said:
Work in = work out

F1*d1 = F2*d2

d changes, to increase F2, but the lever is solid, so how can F1 be different from F2?
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Oh. My. FSM.

I previously thought you were just saying F1 + F2 = F3, but it now appears you are really, truly saying that you think F1 = F2. That is what you are saying here, isn't it?

"How can F1 be different from F2?" No - how can it be the same?


With, say, a 2:1 lever and a 100kg rock;

F1*d1 = F2*d2

F1 * 2 = 100*9.8*1

F1 = 100*9.8*1 / 2

F1 = 490N (equivalent to 50kg, of course)

F1 = 490N and F2 = 980N

These two things are not the same.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
Since Newton.

f=ma

Constant velocity implies zero net force. Or do you disagree with Newton's second law?
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And that includes not moving.

And if connected by a simple rod F1 =F2, so where does the extra force come from?
Developed along the lever, by some magical means? No, it comes from the fulcrum.

Levers do not "amplify force". They sum them.

My brother teaches electronics, and he has a battle with students taking simplified ideas from Wiki,and then saying wiki knows best.
 
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Jack by the hedge said:
Exactly! That's my point!

The net force acting on the lever must be zero if it is not accelerating.
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Well, you can play around as you like.

Your claim about the cart is based on the assumption that any significant force from the rotor actually exists, but that has never been demonstrated.
It has gone backwards, but that has been kept quiet.

What if I show you a cart using a model aircraft prop, and it goes towards the fan, and then add a bit of area to the chassis ( cardboard, blue) , and it goes away from the fan. What will you say?
 
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Right, I just need to check a few things, so apologies if I'm rehashing old ground. Someone tell me if I've got it wrong. It's mercifully short.

It is possible to 'tack' a sailed craft across the wind in such a way that it's travelling down the wind faster than the wind is going.

After that it's just a matter of engineering and a thought experiment involving some ridiculous seeming but logical steps can demonstrate this.

After that it's just a matter of engineering?
 
spork said:
Yes. humber told me long ago that he had alexia. He later claimed that it was his father that had alexia - not him. And later claimed it was just a test to see if I would tell others.

Of course it was not a test, and it was not his father. I think it's pretty evident to most everyone here that humber has brain-damage. That he lies almost continuously is just an added bonus.
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Yikes. Now I feel slightly ashamed at poking fun at him. Only slightly.
 
3point14 said:
Right, I just need to check a few things, so apologies if I'm rehashing old ground. Someone tell me if I've got it wrong. It's mercifully short.

It is possible to 'tack' a sailed craft across the wind in such a way that it's travelling down the wind faster than the wind is going.

After that it's just a matter of engineering and a thought experiment involving some ridiculous seeming but logical steps can demonstrate this.

After that it's just a matter of engineering?
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Yup, sounds good to me. My opposition to this idea started to fade when spork and JB pointed out that iceboats can have VMG's up to three times the speed of the wind.
 
3point14 said:
Thanks.

IU hesitate to ask, but Humber's response to these has been...?
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Fascinating. He offers up a tacking boat in support of his ddwfttw cart, because he can't do that. There is no support for the latter, but there is for tacking carts. You may have noticed that Spork never answers technical questions, nor produces any math.
 
humber said:
Fascinating. He offers up a tacking boat in support of his ddwfttw cart, because he can't do that. There is no support for the latter, but there is for tacking carts. You may have noticed that Spork never answers technical questions, nor produces any math.
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He answered technical questions and produced math years ago which satisfied all but the most ignorant. For fun, and (I would guess) because the small cadre of ignorant were (as is often the case) among the most vocal he actually went out and built a full scale cart and set a world record. After that the only people left that could have any questions are kooks wearing tin hats. The same folks who think Elvis is alive and there was no moon landing.
 
humber said:
Fascinating. He offers up a tacking boat in support of his ddwfttw cart, because he can't do that. There is no support for the latter, but there is for tacking carts. You may have noticed that Spork never answers technical questions, nor produces any math.
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I don't need maths. I wouldn't understand it without some serious revision.

I have logic, that works for me.

I've asked you once what practical demonstration would cause you to admit that you were wrong. You declined to answer. I'm choosing to believe that this is because there is no practical demonstration that would cause you to admit that you are wrong. You are free to disabuse me of this belief at any time.

You take refuge in mathematics. Mathematics merely describes the world, it is not the world itself. If your maths disagrees with reality, then your maths is wrong, not the other way around.

Taking the above into account, I believe that you have built yourself an unfalsifiable position in exactly the same way as the religious do and us such you're just not worth talking to
 
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D'rok said:
Yikes. Now I feel slightly ashamed at poking fun at him. Only slightly.
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That is quite interesting from a man who does not like stereotypes.

Spork posted my PM for no other reason than to get back at me. Sheer malice. Recursive Prophet told me that when he spoke to Spork on the phone, he said he was not like he is on the forum, so I gave Spork the benefit of the doubt, and put that bit about alexia to pander to his preconceived ideas.

But I am a cynic, and thought that perhaps he simply turns Mr Nice guy on when it suits him.
If he was as RP had described him, then he would not have posted that email. He failed.
 
3point14 said:
I don't need maths. I wouldn't understand it without some serious revision.

I have logic, that works for me.

I've asked you once what practical demonstration would cause you to admit that you were wrong. You declined to answer. I'm choosing to believe that this is because there is no practical demonstration that would cause you to admit that you are wrong. You are free to disabuse me of this belief at any time.

You take refuge in mathematics. Mathematics merely describes the world, it is not the world itself. If your maths disagrees with reality, then your maths is wrong, not the other way around.

Taking the above into account, I believe that you have built yourself an unfalsifiable position in exactly the same way as the religious do and us such you're just not worth talking to
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I certainly agree with you 100%, although in this case it is worth noting that Humber doesn't really take refuge in math. He has never posted any coherent math which argued against the cart at all.
 
3point14 said:
I don't need maths. I wouldn't understand it without some serious revision.

I have logic, that works for me.
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Uh-huh.

3point14 said:
I've asked you once what practical demonstration would cause you to admit that you were wrong. You declined to answer. I'm choosing to believe that this is because there is no practical demonstration that would cause you to admit that you are wrong. You are free to disabuse me of this belief at any time.
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The trial says I am right.

3point14 said:
You take refuge in mathematics. Mathematics merely describes the world, it is not the world itself. If your maths disagrees with reality, then your maths is wrong, not the other way around.
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No, that is a dormitory trope. I think that there is a perhaps a coincidence. You can't do math?

3point14 said:
Taking the above into account, I believe that you have built yourself an unfalsifiable position in exactly the same way as the religious do and us such you're just not worth talking to
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Mini-Popper.
 
jduffy77 said:
He answered technical questions and produced math years ago which satisfied all but the most ignorant. For fun, and (I would guess) because the small cadre of ignorant were (as is often the case) among the most vocal he actually went out and built a full scale cart and set a world record. After that the only people left that could have any questions are kooks wearing tin hats. The same folks who think Elvis is alive and there was no moon landing.
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Well done. Elvis and The Moon landing on one post. Hitler for the trifecta.
 
The cart is a sham. A failed up wind cart, pushed through a sham trial.
Riddled with holes, bad experimental control and bias.
I can even turn it into a PM machine and you still support it.
That says more than anything else said.
 
humber said:
Fascinating. He offers up a tacking boat in support of his ddwfttw cart, because he can't do that. There is no support for the latter, but there is for tacking carts. You may have noticed that Spork never answers technical questions, nor produces any math.
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You opened yourself up for this video again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGRFb8yNtBo

So when are you going to find a flaw in it. It goes from boat tacking downwind to DDWFTTW propeller.
 
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