Merged DDWFTTW in a “Real” Wind

[humber]

Give it up. Nobody outside of this cult is going to accept 100 degree wind changes as ddw, NALSA or not.
That level of change is also there in the record run, but so far, all have been kept in the dark about that. No longer.

 

[humber]

I agree. That's why I keep posting that I find his math so hilarious.

Don't need the math. The data over that photo will kill the claim stone dead, to even the least able in math.

 

[tobermoryphil]

Don't need the math. The data over that photo will kill the claim stone dead, to even the least able in math.

If you think the prop is doing 70-80 RPM at 28 mph, you ARE the least able at maths! Go and work it out, and come back- I know what I make it.

 

[spork]

I find it entertaining that humber is putting more energy into disqualifying our record than we put into establishing it - even more so knowing that he will eventually go to his grave having failed to persuade a single soul.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Don't need the math. The data over that photo will kill the claim stone dead, to even the least able in math.

So what's the delay?

 

[tobermoryphil]

I find it entertaining that humber is putting more energy into disqualifying our record than we put into establishing it - even more so knowing that he will eventually go to his grave having failed to persuade a single sole.

A single sole? he must be floundering, and falling off his perch, as he's usually a dab hand at it. We'll have to kipper watch on him!

I'll get me coat, then.

 

[fttw]

A single sole? he must be floundering, and falling off his perch, as he's usually a dab hand at it. We'll have to kipper watch on him!

I'll get me coat, then.

Please cod.

 

[windgrins]

A Crabby reply!

A single sole? he must be floundering, and falling off his perch, as he's usually a dab hand at it. We'll have to kipper watch on him!

I'll get me coat, then.

That's a halibut story you told about that gentleman's sole!

WindGrins

 

[tobermoryphil]

That's a halibut story you told about that gentleman's sole!

WindGrins

Yep- you would have to mussel in! I did feel a bit of an eel- I'll just have to mullet over a bit longer.
And I think that's enough for tonight, you will be relieved to hear.

 

[Llyricist]

Good, I thought I might have to start quoting "Wet Dream" by Kip Addotta.

 

[69dodge]

Here is one from TR where he proves the cart must work with his force balance. His energy balance also shows the cart works as long as you correct his same old mistake. Uncool and Lyricist both corrected it for him already.

Now we must consider the losses: In order for the cart to generate that 1000 Joules of energy at the wheels, it must move a distance of 9 meters over the ground against the drag force that we calculated to be 174 N. 174 N x 9 meters = 1,566 Joules of energy the cart requires in order to do the work at the propeller and overcome all drag at the wheels and due to air resistance.

I do not understand the significance of this 1566 Joules.

I don't think it makes sense to multiply the 174 N by the 9 m/s speed of the cart, because part of that 174 N is exerted by the ground on the bottom of the cart's wheels, which aren't moving at all relative to the ground, let alone at 9 m/s.

The claim is that the cart needs 1566 Joules of energy per second to do whatever it's doing. Ok, then. Where does this energy go? It can't just disappear, of course. So let's examine all the places where the energy could go, and see how much goes to each. 125 Joules per second gets lost to heat in the inefficiency of the cart's chain, etc., because we assumed that the wheels generate 1000 W while only 875 W gets to the propeller. Air resistance plus rolling resistance is 63 N, and the cart is moving at 9 m/s, so another (63 N)(9 m/s) = 567 W gets turned into heat here. The net forward force on the cart is the propeller thrust of 250.6 N minus the backward force of 174.1 N, which equals 76.5 N. Multiplying by 9 m/s yields a power of 688.5 W which is used to accelerate the cart.

Adding up these three, we get 125 W + 567 W + 688.5 W = 1380.5 W, which is within rounding error of the 1380.3 W lost by the air. (The original post had 1386 W lost by the air, but that number has more rounding error.)

So, I still don't know what the 1566 Joules represents, if it represents anything sensible at all, but it definitely isn't the amount of energy that the cart needs to get per second from the air.

 

[jduffy77]

I do not understand the significance of this 1566 Joules.

I don't think it makes sense to multiply the 174 N by the 9 m/s speed of the cart, because part of that 174 N is exerted by the ground on the bottom of the cart's wheels, which aren't moving at all relative to the ground, let alone at 9 m/s.

The claim is that the cart needs 1566 Joules of energy per second to do whatever it's doing. Ok, then. Where does this energy go? It can't just disappear, of course. So let's examine all the places where the energy could go, and see how much goes to each. 125 Joules per second gets lost to heat in the inefficiency of the cart's chain, etc., because we assumed that the wheels generate 1000 W while only 875 W gets to the propeller. Air resistance plus rolling resistance is 63 N, and the cart is moving at 9 m/s, so another (63 N)(9 m/s) = 567 W gets turned into heat here. The net forward force on the cart is the propeller thrust of 250.6 N minus the backward force of 174.1 N, which equals 76.5 N. Multiplying by 9 m/s yields a power of 688.5 W which is used to accelerate the cart.

Adding up these three, we get 125 W + 567 W + 688.5 W = 1380.5 W, which is within rounding error of the 1380.3 W lost by the air. (The original post had 1386 W lost by the air, but that number has more rounding error.)

So, I still don't know what the 1566 Joules represents, if it represents anything sensible at all, but it definitely isn't the amount of energy that the cart needs to get per second from the air.

I could be wrong but I think you might be struggling with some aspects of the special universe he has created to reach his preordained conclusion. As I understand it in his world the energy is lost to the ether before any work gets done and it is somehow separated from it even though it is expended while doing said work.

ETA: Don't forget one of the main features of his world which is that he can mix frames at will. The ground can exert force on the cart only when he wishes it.

 

[humber]

Is it only you that the video whispers these figures to, 'cos it didn't say anything to me!

And if you can estimate the power required from just watching a prop being turned by hand in a video, you have supernatural powers, enough to surely to put in a claim for the JREF $1,000,000!

Right, but as Spork and TAD showed (and I think were surprised by) 3 years ago when they first started doing calculations on this there is so much extra thrust that it is amazing. Without fudging drag and efficiency gloss's mission would be untenable. He is not Humber in the sense that at least at first glance it needs to make some sense.

Binned.

 

[humber]

I find it entertaining that humber is putting more energy into disqualifying our record than we put into establishing it - even more so knowing that he will eventually go to his grave having failed to persuade a single soul.

Don't care what NALSA say. You are done, no matter what.

 

[humber]

I do not understand the significance of this 1566 Joules.

I don't think it makes sense to multiply the 174 N by the 9 m/s speed of the cart, because part of that 174 N is exerted by the ground on the bottom of the cart's wheels, which aren't moving at all relative to the ground, let alone at 9 m/s.

It comes from Spork's use. To use his methods to knock them down.
No engineer calculates power from the wheel.

NALSA submission:
"We’ll adjust the generator output such that it produces 20 lbs of retarding force at the wheels. This tells us the wheels will be putting power into the generator at a rate of 20 mph x 20 lbs (400 mph-
lbs)."

And Profpangloss is not Yevgheni, so it's not the former's quote.

 

[humber]

Good, I thought I might have to start quoting "Wet Dream" by Kip Addotta.

Noel Coward's "Don't put your daughter on the stage , Mrs Worthington" is more apt.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Don't care what NALSA say. You are done, no matter what.

In other words, humber does not care that NALSA is obviously ignoring him. He will keep claiming that the Blackbird failed as long as he is connected to the internet. Never mind that NALSA is the foremost authority on land sailing and that they have nothing to gain by certifying a bogus record.

What's wrong humber, did NALSA laugh at your submission? You gave us quite a few belly laughs here.

 

[humber]

What's wrong humber, did NALSA laugh at your submission?

Oh, better than that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh, better than that.

What did they do, pick up options on it so that they can make a sitcom of your life? Well congratulations humber! Spreading your humor to the world, that is most gracious of you.

 

[humber]

What did they do, pick up options on it so that they can make a sitcom of your life? Well congratulations humber! Spreading your humor to the world, that is most gracious of you.

Mr Liability knows what it means.