Merged DDWFTTW in a “Real” Wind

[humber]

Humber, did you ever figure out that a stationary wind tunnel and a treadmill in still air are precisely the same thanks to relativity? Or do you continue to insist that kinetic energy is somehow absolute?

This thread is about a cart in the wind, and meteorological instrumentation.
The TM will be blown out of the water with two carts that travel up the belt, with no prop, sail, or anything else. That is later.

But for now, you may enjoy these videos, which preceded Spork's TM.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7690/u56.mp4

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/5312/i0i.mp4

 

[humber]

A prop-powered cart "tacking" with slightly variable and slightly off-true tail winds that manages a peak of 2.8x average windspeed?

Show your maths or show your wind-tunnel trials.

The cart accelerates at a near constant 0.1ms-2. That makes it quite easy to show that the KE demand for that acceleration, is a mere 300J/s at 27mph.
That is easily taken from the wind, as the prop blade moves in an out of the higher speed wind, 2 or 3 meters above the ground.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Humber, did you ever figure out that a stationary wind tunnel and a treadmill in still air are precisely the same thanks to relativity? Or do you continue to insist that kinetic energy is somehow absolute?

Not only does he think that kinetic energy is somehow absolute, it matters how an object got kinetic energy according to him. He has gotten even sicker since he was last here.

 

[humber]

Not only does he think that kinetic energy is somehow absolute, it matters how an object got kinetic energy according to him. He has gotten even sicker since he was last here.

You can hawk your gossip elsewhere. Post if you have something to say about wind vane and anemometer dynamics.

 

[Subduction Zone]

humber, do I need to link about your complaints about how the velocity the cart gained by pushing should be subtracted off of its velocity in the record run?

 

[GlennB]

humber, do I need to link about your complaints about how the velocity the cart gained by pushing should be subtracted off of its velocity in the record run?

Not for humber, but can you do it for laffs for the rest of us who missed it?

 

[Christian Klippel]

Not for humber, but can you do it for laffs for the rest of us who missed it?

While at it, SZ may also link to the posts at TR where humber claimed that if you put, for example, a 10 kilogram weight on two stacked scales, each one will only read 5 kilogram. Because that is how springs work, he says. Really, i'm not kidding you.

Greetings,

Chris

 

[CORed]

While at it, SZ may also link to the posts at TR where humber claimed that if you put, for example, a 10 kilogram weight on two stacked scales, each one will only read 5 kilogram. Because that is how springs work, he says. Really, i'm not kidding you.

Greetings,

Chris

The humberverse must be a fascinating place.

 

[CORed]

This thread is about a cart in the wind, and meteorological instrumentation.
The TM will be blown out of the water with two carts that travel up the belt, with no prop, sail, or anything else. That is later.

But for now, you may enjoy these videos, which preceded Spork's TM.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/7690/u56.mp4

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/5312/i0i.mp4

Seriously? You think the videos of the cart with two wheels on a stationary surface and one on a belt sander remaining stationary until the belt sander is speeded up prove something about the ddfttw carst? Please explain. It should be humorous.

 

[humber]

humber, do I need to link about your complaints about how the velocity the cart gained by pushing should be subtracted off of its velocity in the record run?

Already in the text. The cart never reaches steady state, so still under the influence of initial conditions. V =at, where a is the sum of all accelerations.


If the cart were not pushed, but only accelerated at the rate after that, then
it would obviously not reach the same speed. Steady-state was a loudly trumpeted claim, but now the cart fails to perform as hoped, the claim has been reduced to meet that.

But, there is nothing at all interesting about this cart reaching some multiple of WS, because it tacks the wind, like so many other sail craft

However, as a "record", for whatever that is worth, there will be problems should there be any future contestants. They will argue about how much influence the pushing had, don't you think? It's pushed to 40% of the record. The trail method is unsound, and unrepeatable, so worthless from any point of view.

 

[humber]

Seriously? You think the videos of the cart with two wheels on a stationary surface and one on a belt sander remaining stationary until the belt sander is speeded up prove something about the ddfttw carst? Please explain. It should be humorous.

It is no different. You just think it is. And the topic is a cart in the wind,
not TM's.

 

[Molinaro]

But, there is nothing at all interesting about this cart reaching some multiple of WS, because it tacks the wind, like so many other sail craft

Because you imagine that to be the case? Are you there measuring the direction of the wind? Do you have any evidence to back that up?

 

[CORed]

It is no different. You just think it is. And the topic is a cart in the wind,
not TM's.

Oh, I get it. You still haven't figured out that the cart with the propeller was moving in the opposite direction of the belt.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not for humber, but can you do it for laffs for the rest of us who missed it?

I will link a post of his that claims this. It is at the bottom of the post if you want to skip ahead. I don't want to copy and paste his rant for everybody to see here, there may be innocent women and children reading this

http://talkrational.org/showpost.php?p=1312317&postcount=746

 

[CORed]

A prop-powered cart "tacking" with slightly variable and slightly off-true tail winds that manages a peak of 2.8x average windspeed?

Show your maths or show your wind-tunnel trials.

So, no test is valid unless it's conducted in a "real" wind, but the test is invalid if the velocity or direction of the wind changes a little bit, which just about always happens with "real" wind. Nice.

 

[humber]

Because you imagine that to be the case? Are you there measuring the direction of the wind? Do you have any evidence to back that up?

Plenty. Take a look at the orange chart. The cart does not spend one second ddw. The wind is the black serpentine line. It should follow that.

Not suitable or possible? Probably not, but then, it's not suitable to the task of proving ddwfttw.There are no second prizes.

Spork has admitted that the conditions were not suitable, saying that the wind was "crossed", but he followed the course he was told to follow.

The only wind data that is actually NALSA's, is the last 10 seconds. They average that, to -4.1 degrees, but you can't do that to vectors. The RMS value is 8.8 degrees, not -4.1 degrees. The wind data alone ( not the difference of cart and wind) produces 11.02 degrees. The chart was produced by Spork not NALSA, and it is clear that he tampered with the data. I don't need to be there to see that.

The vane is designed for fixed use, and to meet NIST standards. For mobile measurements, pitot tubes or acoustic devices are necessary. The mechanical response of the vane can be known, and that, I do know.
The wind deviation will be higher than indicated. There is nothing about this cart that says anything but a sail cart, tacking the wind.

 

[Llyricist]

You can hawk your gossip elsewhere. Post if you have something to say about wind vane and anemometer dynamics.

Like how you think a balanced weather vane will be forced to show a more direct headwind by acceleration?

Or how a 650 lb cart is more sensitive to changes in wind than high performance meteorological measurement devices?

 

[humber]

Like how you think a balanced weather vane will be forced to show a more direct headwind by acceleration?

I don't think you are up to the mathematical explanation, LLyricst, so I will show you diagrammatically.

The additional force due to acceleration, suppresses the deviation, and there is no means of getting the correct answer, unless at least all of the transient behavior is recorded. The sampling rate is only 5Hz, and that means a bandwidth of less than 2.5Hz. In wind tunnel testing of vanes, the sampling rate is 350Hz or greater.
NALSA have no way of knowing the apparent from the real, and that is that. A fundamental error.

 

[Llyricist]

Do you have any idea what the term "balanced" means?

 

[humber]

Do you have any idea what the term "balanced" means?

It seems you don't. A vane is not balanced in any way that affects the result of acceleration. There is a mass at one end, and a vane at the other. Force on the vane create torque that accelerates the mass. There is no "balance" other than static. It's a second-order device, and will oscillate when a transient is applied. As I said, the math is not for you, but you seem to think that off-the-cuff generalities will cover a topic that is completely foreign to you.
NALSA are not a testing lab. They don't have any certification at all.