Split Thread David Gilroy: murder conviction goes to Scottish Review Commission

[NightOfTheDemon]

If he parked in the same place as the car in this picture and the disposal site is at A, B or C he would need to carry the body over the river.



He may have thought about wild animals digging up the bones from a shallow grave and dispersing them around the area (similar to the Louise Tiffney case) A human bone dug up by a fox then found by a hiker would trigger a police search.

In D he would have to carry the body from the car across open ground into the trees. It would be difficult to dig a deep enough grave in there.

In E he would have to dig a grave as hikers/their dogs could stumble over a partially covered body.

He could have parked at area 1 then dug a deep enough grave near 2 (which gives him some privacy) The grave would have to be 3 feet deep as per this Instagram video. This is deep enough to prevent wild animals detecting the decomposition smell from the body and therefore they would not dig at the grave. He could then have dragged/carried the body from the car boot to the grave and filled it in.

Taking this into account area 2 in the image is the best place to search with a metal detector and a shovel.

 

[NightOfTheDemon]

Unbelievably, Glyn Razzell is to be released from prison even though he has never disclosed where he buried his estranged wife Linda.

Linda's family said the ruling "ripped up" Helen's Law, which places a legal duty on the Parole Board to consider the suffering caused by killers who refuse to disclose where their victim is buried.

 

[Rolfe]

Helen's Law (which was actively supported by Suzanne's family too) was always a complete con. I read the news about them rejoicing, then read the actual ruling, and realised they'd been had. The Parole Board only has to consider the family's suffering. It always had to do that anyway! What they wanted was a ruling that a murderer who refused to reveal the location of the victim's body would absolutely not be released until he did. They didn't get that. The criminal justice system was already fixing up to release Helen's killer even as the "law" was announced.

They'll let Gilroy out too, in due course. 2032, isn't it?

 

[NightOfTheDemon]

DG was sentenced to a minimum of 18 years in March 2012 so can be considered for parole in March 2030.

Justice Secretary Angela Constance said: "Changes in the landmark Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform Act will require that the Parole Board for Scotland must, when making a decision on release, take account of whether the prisoner has information about the disposal of the victim's remains, but has not disclosed it.

 

[Rolfe]

Ah. 2030 was in my mind, but so was 20 years. It was 18 then, that explains it.

Again, "take account of". They only have to say they took account of it, then decided to release him anyway.

 

[NightOfTheDemon]

So, he is out of prison in less than 4 years.

 

[Rolfe]

Well, not necessarily as soon as that. I think they'll probably refuse him once or twice for the look of the thing, then concede.

 

[NightOfTheDemon]

Glyn Razzell was sentenced to life with a minimum of 16 years in 2003 and he was denied parole three times previously (2019, 2021, and 2023), becoming the first person denied release specifically under Helen's Law in 2021. He could have got parole in 2019 if he fessed up but kept quiet and got another 7 years. Looks like Helens Law/Suzanne's Law doesn't apply at the fourth parole hearing.

 

[Rolfe]

I can see the logic from their point of view, that if the murderer isn't going to cave in then what's the point of keeping him at His Majesty's pleasure any longer. But simply knowing that's going to be the eventual conclusion will encourage refusal to cave. And the families feel betrayed either way.

 

[Rolfe]

By the way, I can't make the 23rd after all. I have a neighbour who has two sorts of cancer I'm ferrying to her hospital appointments, and she's due in Melrose for some procedure that morning. Bother, it's going to be such a nice day too. And it would be interesting to see what the place looks like since there has been so much felling across the burn.

We had a damn good look at areas 1 and 2 last time, and my overwhelming impression was of ground that was stony and hard-packed and very difficult to dig a proper grave in, even one only three feet deep. There would also surely be a period where the scar on the surface would be very obvious to anyone passing, before the ground settled and the vegetation re-grew. I thought the depression which was filled more recently (2019) by the conifer branches might have been more promising.

I was off the idea of disposal in commercial forest in general, because it's usually very bare under the trees with little chance to conceal anything. Also, it gets felled. I suspect they'll be coming for it soon. But this bit of forest is very different from the usual. Under these trees it's extremely uneven with huge banks of sphagnum moss and little water channels. You did a bit of it with the metal detector last time. I've been thinking that maybe he took the car as close to the edge of the forest as he could, carried her body in among the trees, then parked the car neatly near the picnic table and went back among the trees to complete the concealment. That way anyone who might have passed would only have seen an empty parked car and could have assumed it belonged to a forestry worker.

I'm not sure he would necessarily have been thinking about her being dug up by animals. I'm not sure what there is up there that might have been interested in doing that. And bones aren't a terribly unusual sight in these places, deer and sheep. Only if you saw a human skull would you necessarily realise something sinister was going on. How many people realise that human ribs are much more curved than animal ribs?

Though I think you make a good point about the secluded nature of the place back in 2010. No car park, a bridge that didn't look very inviting, and a track that led very quickly into dark forest and steeply uphill. Cyclists on the bike trail would turn across the footbridge before they got to the picnic place. How many picnickers or visitors to a' Choille Chailleannach are likely to have been up there on a fairly dull Wednesday afternoon in May, two days after a Bank Holiday? I think the chance of anyone coming past was a lot less than 10% (although still higher than zero of course).

Having driven to the Succoth tracks entrance, the Duncan Bàn memorial and the entrance to Glen Strae, my main reservation is, where would you start? The first two have changed so much that you can't even guess where he might have gone in 2010. And in all of them there's a huge area where she could have been anywhere. Only at the picnic place is the task even faintly manageable.

And I'm still not entirely convinced she's not in that pond.

 

[NightOfTheDemon]

There is a 5 day dry spell in Tyndrum from Sunday 19th April, I will go to the picnic spot on one of those days. It's still a bit cold for overnights. Will get a magnet fishing kit (they are inexpensive) This one from ebay should do it.

 

[Rolfe]

I might make it one of the other days. I'm OK with overnights because I can keep my car heater on all night and it's really cosy. The only problem is when I have to get up and out of the warm car! One morning beside Loch Ness last autumn I proved it was possible to get up and get dressed without opening a car door. The dashboard was showing 4ºC and I really didn't fancy that. I had to get out to boil the kettle and get washed and make my breakfast, but at least I was dressed and the sun was coming round to my parking space by then.

That magnet is a good idea. I was thinking that things (clothes, bones, whatever) might have sunk into the mud under all that water weed, so the grapple couldn't get to them. But a magnet might attract a zip or a set of keys. It might even be worth trailing it through parts of the forest too. I don't think he would have carried her over the burn because the indications (from Hugh Venables' contemporary photographs) are that there was a fair bit of water in it compared to when we were there, and I'm not really convinced there would be enough advantage to that to make it worth the effort. There's another path on the other side (the mountain access).

It's also worth a look at track 4 on my list, and that layby, if only to get an idea of the possibilities. If I have my bike with me I might try a little expedition into Succoth too.

 

[NightOfTheDemon]

After some research I have ordered a fishing magnet (Magnetar 280 kg easy magnet all round 360 degrees) Most magnets are only magnetic on one side but this is magnetic all round. If there are keys, coins and a mobile phone in the pond this magnet will find them. Awaiting delivery before making trip to picnic spot.

​

 

[NightOfTheDemon]

I was looking for a link between the Allt Broighleachan and the soils, grit and foliage found on DG's car, so I asked Google Gemini AI.



I also asked Google Gemini AI if there were any other areas in Argyll that are good matches and it suggested;

The Queen Elizabeth Forest Park (marked in red in this image)



The Rosneath Peninsula and Ardentinny.



Gemini also suggests Lochgoilhead and Tarbert.

He did not spend enough time in The Queen Elizabeth Forest Park to complete the disposal.

The other suggestions would involve so much driving time that DG would have very little time for the actual disposal.

He did not have enough time to get from Inveraray to The Rosneath Peninsula and back.

Inveraray to Ardentinny and back takes 96 minutes (48 minutes each way) If he went there in the afternoon the timings would be;
1322 arrive Tyndrum
1358 arrive at junction of A819/A83
1446 arrive in Ardentinny
1446 to 1503 complete the disposal in 17 minutes
1551 arrive Inveraray

His mobile phone was on when he was in Lochgilphead and Tarbert is 13 miles south of Lochgilphead.

We have already ruled out Lochgoilhead and Glen Croe.

 

[Rolfe]

Honestly, I think the soil thing is a complete red herring cooked up by jourmalists with columns to fill. Stuart Houston told me that while they had hoped that soil analysis might prove helpful, and I imagine someeone told the press that, in fact it turned out to be no real use.

If you're going up there on Friday I could probably make it. Unless you'd rather just be by yourself. Or Wednesday, maybe.

 

[NightOfTheDemon]

ETA for magnet is Friday 24th April so I am going to the picnic spot on Saturday 25th April (arriving at car park opposite the bridge on the B8074 at 1pm.)

 

[Rolfe]

Annoyingly, I allowed myself to be persuaded to sign up for a music workshop in Edinburgh on Saturday. And it's going to be such a nice day, too! I've also been persuaded to go for a sail on Loch Katrine on Friday.

Hopefully the good weather will continue and more investigations can be planned. Good luck for Saturday!

 

[NightOfTheDemon]

Summary of visit to Allt Broighleachan picnic spot on Friday 24th April 2026. (I decided to go on Friday as magnet was delivered Thursday)

The pond looked shallow and the water depth was measured at 1.5 feet (50cm) at the edges (water depth probably 2.5 feet (75cm) in the centre)




I walked all around the pond and threw the magnet in. I let the magnet sink into the mud for a minute but the magnet did not pick up anything.




I then had a look around area D and E (as per image at top of the page) but again did not find anything.

I decided to go back to B and look for the bone which I had photographed on a previous visit. I found it, collected it and took photos.

 

[Rolfe]

Maybe the pond was never deep enough to be a practical disposal site, though I have a suspicion that the water level is dropping a bit over the years. Unfortunately, being retired, I don't have easy access to some way to find out what species that bone is from. It's probably deer, but you never know.

Friday was a fantastic day, Loch Katrine was lovely. I'm thinking of going cycling on Arran next week, but I could switch to Glen Orchy if there was reason to go.

 

[NightOfTheDemon]

I agree, it is a deer bone.

This is an image of the stream that flows from the forest (marked as D at the top of the page) to the main river on the right.

The grey trees on the left are deciduous larch trees and the green trees behind them are non deciduous sitka spruce.



The "pond" (red circle) was once a meander in the stream but is now a small oxbow lake. It is cut off from the stream and has become stagnant. It is now a swamp/bog which will dry up completely over time (could take hundreds of years). It may reconnect to the river briefly during severe floods, but is considered a separated, stagnant water body.

Options for future searches;

1 - I have 2 of these 1.25kg weight plates which I could attach to the magnet. The magnet would (hopefully) sink into the oxbow's silt and mud.

2 - Systematically search the forest at area D and tie flagging tape around the trees to mark the areas searched.

When I searched in the forest at area D there were a few waterlogged areas. I had to check the ground with my hiking poles before taking a step in the forest (which took some time) Tying flagging tape around a tree in the areas already searched would help to speed up the search. The tape would then have to be removed when the search is completed.

I can't make it back next week, however will go back in May when it is not raining.