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David Chandler forced NIST to admit "free-fall"

Why do you always attack him and not what he's saying. Perhaps it's because you can't.

It tells me a lot that does.

It was not CD. Only gullible people who can't do physics fall for the claim of CD and support Chandler and post failed AE911Truth videos. Chandlers videos are dumbed down for those who don't think for themselves. Have you fallen for the claims of CD? It is self-critiquing.

You posted videos which have lies and don't have evidence. Chandler talks nonsense and has fooled you? Should have taken physics.

Proof you have nothing, you can't take the crazy videos you have to anyone and prove CD. You can't get ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, or any newspaper to take action. Why? Because you have nonsense. You don't know it is nonsense so you post it.
 
Welcome aboard Geraldo

Bachelor in Metallurgical Engineering speaks

If you have a problem with this then don't ask me ask them

If you dare. They'll destroy you

Them/they? Who?? :confused:

Do you realize that more than 99.9% of the engineers in California (I mention CA, because that's where Kathleen McGrade from your 2nd video is from) do not fall for the lies and delusions of AE911Truth? And that is Richard Gage's home state, where he campaigns the most. In the rest of the USA and the world, the situation is even worse!

Do you realize that Tony Szamboti, Geraldo's guest in that show, has been talking his fellow engineers in Pennsylvania and New Jersey (which he calls home), and has not convinced a single one to at least sign that petition?

Do you relize that the entire professions of metallurgical, structural and civil engineering totally laugh at these deluded people?

Do you realize that even in New York, where you'd think engineers would be most susceptible to the message as the mayhem happened in their Big Apple, only 1 in 5000 professional engineers believes that nonsense?

Do you realize that almost none of the "research" presented by "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" actually comes from Engineers or Architects? That their main "research" hotshots are a teacher, a theologian, a computer something and other such people?
 
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Must have missed these a while back...

5. performing a linear regression of his velocity data in order to calculate acceleration. This action alone artificially forces his results to conclude "a constant acceleration". A more detailed analysis of the data shows that this conclusion is erroneous. (The fact that his conclusion is erroneous is clearly evident in his own data, if you know what to look for.)

The fact is that the north wall of WTC7 falls "at G" for NO duration. It passes thru G about 4 times, but dwells there for no time at all.
Whilst I'm no fan of Chandler's data or methods, it should be highlighted that NIST also made the same mistake...

659040095.png


Whilst their velocity function could have been derived, it wasn't, leading NIST to make the assertion "In Stage 2, the north face descended at gravitational acceleration, as exterior column buckling progressed and the columns provided negligible support to the upper portion of the north face. This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories (105 ft), the distance traveled between times t = 1.75 s and t = 4.0 s."

So that's what tfk means when he says Chandler "forces his results to conclude a constant acceleration": His method cannot get any other result, no matter what the actual behaviour of acceleration is. Chandler does linear regression, and the result of linear regression is always a line.
It's simply not the right method to use.
Agreed.
 
Over a year and no action, just fantasy. CD failed because there is no evidence. No thermite products fused to WTC steel, no blast effect, therefore no explosives. A big fail, no action, do nothing movement of fantasy.

An nut on 911 issues who have published what? Nothing on 911. She makes up stuff and you fall for lies. Why are you so gullible. Please pick out her evidence and present it. She say the collapse was symmetrical, it was not, she can't do math, symmetry is math. Another 911 truth nut who has done nothing to refute a gravity collapse.

CD looks like a gravity collapse because CD primary source of energy is from gravity; too bad 911 truth can't do physics.

If you have a problem with this then don't ask me ask them
You presented lies from nuts, and you can't change the lies into real evidence. It is your problem, you have nothing and never will.

If you dare. They'll destroy you
You presented nonsense, and you can't support it. Post nonsense, don't comment, run away; you will repeat this failed tactic how-many more times?

David Chandler has the fantasy of CD and presents nonsense to support it.
 
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I live every day thankful that i'm not so stupid as to buy these just blindingly asinine 'theories'

Wow. How anybody can take scum like Gage at his word is beyond me. Scumbags. Every. Single. Truther.
 
I think what he's saying is that the Penthouse collapses but the total collapse of the building in general doesn't start until a few seconds later and for 2.28 seconds the collapse is indistinguishable from free fall....
I understand what he is saying. But there are several issues before we even get to what he is saying:

1) First please realise that some of us, me included, understand basic physics. And more advanced physics but basic will do for this issue; AND
2) We have been confronting Chandlers claims (and others such as Szamboti's) for several years minimum.

Bottom line is we have little patience left when yet another person comes presenting Chandler's material as if:
A) It is new; AND
B) It is true.

It is neither new nor true. And it is worse than simply "not true". It is deliberately written with the intention of deceiving people such as you by a person who must know that his claims are untrue. The misleading use of language in the first few seconds - emotive propaganda tricks and lies by innuendo - turn most of us honest people off watching. But forget that aspect for now - let's first deal with the outright untruths of fact and not the trickery of presentation.

So if you are genuinely interested in understanding aspects of the WTC7 collapse and what is right and what is wrong with Chandler's claims some members , me included, will walk you through the issues. Provided you for your part are prepared and able to enter into reasoned discussion. If you are not you are simply another trolling truther and I won't waste time with your delusions.

Now the underlying issue with this truther meme of 'David Chandler forced NIST to admit "free-fall"' is the presumption that free-fall means CD. It doesn't. And all truther claims based on free-fall including Chandler's fail at that starting point. When complicated structures such as steel framed buildings collapse it is not unexpected that some bits fall at accelerations which are large proportions of "G".

That happens for all the reasons truthers claim with the one big exception that it does not follow exclusively from CD. It is a consequence of the collapse mechanism and cares not whether that mechanism was "natural" or included some assistance from CD.

So put very simply free-fall means nothing. It certainly does not prove CD. So Chandler's and similar truther claims collapse like a house of cards before they even leave the starting line. But you may need to understand the physics or engineering that is involved before you accept that simple truth.

Now if you are prepared to work forward from that basis I am prepared to explain further. If not, no sweat to me, remain in your delusions that Chandler it saying something legit. He isn't but......

He is wrong in engineering basics. He is wrong in logic. And it is easy to prove.

Your call. If you remain committed to "Chandler is right" then none of us here can help you. Other members but not me will probably play games with your trolling. If they do remember it is your fault - you had the offer and rejected it.

Your call!

So, given that "line in the sand":
...NIST say that collapse starts at a point that Chandler identifies as frame 16 in his video when in fact it doesn't start until frame 40. They have to say frame 16 otherwise their 5.4 seconds of collapse will not fit.

See Part 3

Notice at 3.50 Chandler mentions the bottom 8 floors. It is interesting to note that NIST contracted out the analysis of the collapse of the building accept for the bottom eight floors.

It is the bottom eight floors of support that have been removed simultaneously to initiate the free fall we can clearly see in the video.

See the full lecture from David Chandler
The offer from me is to discuss why Chandler is wrong. No need to confuse it with whether or not NIST was wrong. So all the latter bits of quoted stuff are irrelevant at this stage!

Over to you. This is probably the best offer you will get. :)
 
Over a year and no action, just fantasy. CD failed because there is no evidence. No thermite products fused to WTC steel, no blast effect, therefore no explosives. A big fail, no action, do nothing movement of fantasy.

An nut on 911 issues who have published what? Nothing on 911. She makes up stuff and you fall for lies. Why are you so gullible. Please pick out her evidence and present it. She say the collapse was symmetrical, it was not, she can't do math, symmetry is math. Another 911 truth nut who has done nothing to refute a gravity collapse.

CD looks like a gravity collapse because CD primary source of energy is from gravity; too bad 911 truth can't do physics.

You presented lies from nuts, and you can't change the lies into real evidence. It is your problem, you have nothing and never will.


You presented nonsense, and you can't support it. Post nonsense, don't comment, run away; you will repeat this failed tactic how-many more times?

David Chandler has the fantasy of CD and presents nonsense to support it.

You can always go onto Architects and Engineers for 911 truth and bring up your points.

Let me know when you propose to go so I can sit back and watch you get ripped apart.

I need a good laugh.
 
Must have missed these a while back...


Whilst I'm no fan of Chandler's data or methods, it should be highlighted that NIST also made the same mistake...

[qimg]http://femr2.ucoz.com/_ph/7/659040095.png[/qimg]

Whilst their velocity function could have been derived, it wasn't, leading NIST to make the assertion "In Stage 2, the north face descended at gravitational acceleration, as exterior column buckling progressed and the columns provided negligible support to the upper portion of the north face. This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories (105 ft), the distance traveled between times t = 1.75 s and t = 4.0 s."


Agreed.

But the main roof of the building went instantly into free fall from a stable position.

659040095.png


Stage one is contrived to fit their (NIST's) 5.4 second model

It fell in free fall for the equivalent of 8 floors.

The bottom eight floors had been taken away by explosives.

Stage 3 is understandable because even after 104 feet of free fall the structure would hit resistance of floors already collapsed and air resistance which increases with the speed of the fall. (Drag)

Notice it says VELOCITY COMPUTED NUMERICALLY for the black dots i.e. Not by observation

Chandler's observed analysis
 
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But the main roof of the building went instantly into free fall from a stable position.
No, it did not...


It took ~1s to reach near-G. Not instant.

Chandler's data does not support your assertion.
NIST's data does not support your assertion.
My data does not support your assertion.

Who's data are you suggesting supports your assertion ?

I am willing to take you through my data, and even instruct you on how to generate data yourself, so that you have no "trust" issues, but you must be prepared to get your hands dirty and engage.

You've had one offer already. Taking this one ?

Stage one is contrived to fit their (NIST's) 5.4 second model
They used their T0, as highlighted by Figure 12-75 in NCSTAR 1-9 Vol 2. I'm not a fan of that start point (which I can explain to you in detail), but that is where it comes from. Conjecture about contriving to fit is pointless.

It fell in free fall for the equivalent of 8 floors.
There's a period of rapid acceleration near-G, including some over-G...for the NW corner. Such can be explained to you.

Notice it says VELOCITY COMPUTED NUMERICALLY for the black dots i.e. Not by observation
Correct. You cannot determine velocity from displacement data without calculation. Chandler also determined velocity "numerically".

Stop requoting Chandler's crappy video's. Everyone knows where they are.
 
You can always go onto Architects and Engineers for 911 truth and bring up your points.

Let me know when you propose to go so I can sit back and watch you get ripped apart.

I need a good laugh.
They don't have a forum. They did at one time but they shut it down. Too much truth was going on. :rolleyes:
 
'...Please link us the audio of 608 simultaneous cuts made by explosives. That's about 76 columns x 8 floors AFTER the penthouse collapsed."

Please explain how a steel office tower covering an area approximately the size of a football field can 'naturally' suffer a fatal, global, and simultaneous loss of vertical support allowing it to drop like a brick in the open air, for 8 floors?

MM
 
Please explain how a steel office tower covering an area approximately the size of a football field can 'naturally' suffer a fatal, global, and simultaneous loss of vertical support allowing it to drop like a brick in the open air, for 8 floors?

MM

Here's a hint. You have several grand misconceptions as to what you are trying to describe.

First, the structure that globally collapsed for eight floors at free fall was NOT the same intact "steel office tower" you try and lead people to believe. The structure that collapsed for 8 stories at free fall was the REMENANTS of WTC7 AFTER the penthouse fell into the building itself.

Approximately what percentage of WTC7 was standing when it globally collapsed for 8 seconds?

Second, how can you believe that a structure CANNOT suffer a global, free fall collapse for 8 floors after losing part of it's central core? Especially after the remaining structure was weakened by fire to some degree?

Your above quote makes it sound like WTC7 collapsed globally at free fall from a pristine state.
 
Please explain how a steel office tower covering an area approximately the size of a football field can 'naturally' suffer a fatal, global, and simultaneous loss of vertical support allowing it to drop like a brick in the open air, for 8 floors?

MM

Another question MM.

What caused this this building to NOT globally collapse due to fire? Was it the structural engineers who designed the structure to NOT collapse due to a fire of this magnitude?
wnn-mandarin-after-fire2.jpg


I will ask you again.

Have structural engineers figured how to 100% guarantee that any tower they design will never EVER globally collapse from fire? If so, why do they continue to fire proof steel?
 
Please explain how a steel office tower covering an area approximately the size of a football field can 'naturally' suffer a fatal, global, and simultaneous loss of vertical support allowing it to drop like a brick in the open air, for 8 floors?

MM

Unfought fires for about 7 hours is my guess.
 
Here's a hint. You have several grand misconceptions as to what you are trying to describe.

First, the structure that globally collapsed for eight floors at free fall was NOT the same intact "steel office tower" you try and lead people to believe. The structure that collapsed for 8 stories at free fall was the REMENANTS of WTC7 AFTER the penthouse fell into the building itself.

Approximately what percentage of WTC7 was standing when it globally collapsed for 8 seconds?

Second, how can you believe that a structure CANNOT suffer a global, free fall collapse for 8 floors after losing part of it's central core? Especially after the remaining structure was weakened by fire to some degree?

Your above quote makes it sound like WTC7 collapsed globally at free fall from a pristine state.
Well stated, this is the biggest misconception among the Truthers. Just remember, it also wasn't proven to be 8 stories at CONSTANT free fall either.
 
global, and simultaneous loss of vertical support allowing it to drop like a brick in the open air, for 8 floors?

MM

Another issue with your use of the term "simultaneous" to describe the loss of support for "it" (WTC7).

If it was a "simultaneous" loss of support as you claim, why did the penthouse fall first, followed by the rest of the penthouse/core, followed by the remaining outer structural facade?

If it was "simultaneous" like you claim, please explain why the remaining penthouse structure, visible above the facade wall at the roof movement onset, disappears BEHIND it? I thought it was all "simultaneous"? Watch starting at :10 of the following video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9JgiXcSPZQ

penthouseremains.png


missingpenthouse.png
 
You can always go onto Architects and Engineers for 911 truth and bring up your points.

Let me know when you propose to go so I can sit back and watch you get ripped apart.

I need a good laugh.

Can you tell me why your highly touted Architects and Engineers back a brochure which claims:

The building fell almost symmetrically straight down in less than 7 seconds...

According to my video above, the collapse initiation started with the penthouse and continued from there. I get 11 seconds from that until the building disappears from view.

Why are all those architects backing a false claim that the entire building fell in less than 7 seconds?
 

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