Current Iranian unrest will lead to regime change.

[Policenaut]

No one has any access. That's why CNN and FOX are getting news from Twitter and Youtube instead of the AP. MSNBC of course is busy showing Locked Up reruns tonight.

 

[Thunder]

That's why it keeps harping on about external threats, from the US, Israel and (gawdelpus) the UK.

lolol!! i like that

 

[dudalb]

It's nobody's affair but the Iranians'. That, ultimately, was the point of the Revolution. And it was a valid point : Iran is not our business in principle, and it's no longer our business in practice. They'll sort something out.

Your concern for freedom and democracy are touching.

And when Iran supports groups like Hezbollah?

 

[Policenaut]

It's nobody's affair but the Iranians'. That, ultimately, was the point of the Revolution. And it was a valid point : Iran is not our business in principle, and it's no longer our business in practice. They'll sort something out.

With the actions taken by the regime (I assume there are greater and more widespread violence that hasn't been reported yet) I think it should at the very least be the business of the UN.

 

[dudalb]

I just saw the footage of the woman. If you do not what I am talking about, you soon will.
My God. Godwin be damned, Heinrich Himmler's Merry Men could not have done much worse.

 

[Thunder]

Your concern for freedom and democracy are touching.

And when Iran supports groups like Hezbollah?

The USA supports China. whats the difference.

 

[Roadtoad]

I just saw the footage of the woman. If you do not what I am talking about, you soon will.
My God. Godwin be damned, Heinrich Himmler's Merry Men could not have done much worse.

Just watched it myself.

Ya THINK!?!? Any chance she could be gagged?

 

[Minadin]

I agree with the USA admin's tact of stating that the situation in Iran needs to be decided by the will of the Iranian people and not subverted. I wish we could do more for those who are fighting for democracy and moderation, but I fear that any actual intervention might do more harm than good on the stage of global politics. In the mean time I hope they can accept our heartfelt well-wishes and general support.

It also may turn out still that more Iranians did actually vote for the current President, and if that's the case and if we're promoting that the 'voice of the people' be heard, we need to be prepared to accept and deal with that as well.

Personally, I would be most happy with new polls (or a run-off between the top 2) with some sort of international oversight (let Iran pick half and the UN pick half) and validation. But, it seems like that isn't likely to happen. We'll see.

 

[dudalb]

The USA supports China. whats the difference.

God, Parky , drop the moral equvilence garbage.Few people are buying that.

 

[Minadin]

What footage of what woman?

 

[Thunder]

God, Parky , drop the moral equvilence garbage.Few people are buying that.

China murders countless people in Tibet. The USA supports China through Most-Favored Nation trade status and other goodies.

Moral equivalence? You betcha!!

 

[ravdin]

China murders countless people in Tibet. The USA supports China through Most-Favored Nation trade status and other goodies.

Moral equivalence? You betcha!!

If I wanted to make a moral equivalence argument, I'd probably pick Saudi Arabia. They have all of the despotic attributes of Iran- an absolute monarchy, no free speech, armed thugs enforcing religious "virtue" in the streets, and zero tolerance for dissent. Unlike in Iran, women can't vote, drive a car, or walk about with their faces uncovered. And yet the Saudis are our allies. Go figure.

 

[egslim]

Your concern for freedom and democracy are touching.

Not speaking for CapelDodger, but democracy includes the people's right to self-determination. And freedom also means to be free of unwanted foreign intervention.

You fault others for their lack of concern, but you don't even understand the meaning of.

 

[icerat]

What footage of what woman?

Google "Neda Video". A beautiful young girl apparently shot throw the heart by a Basij sniper while not even participating in the riots. Her death was captured on two different cell phone videos. Harrowing.

 

[Policenaut]

CNN and FOX both were showing the video last night but heavily pixellated.

 

[Thunder]

Not speaking for CapelDodger, but democracy includes the people's right to self-determination. And freedom also means to be free of unwanted foreign intervention.

You fault others for their lack of concern, but you don't even understand the meaning of.

Sometimes people very much want foreign intervention. I don't think this is the case in Iran though.

The USA should stay out of this one, for the time being. The last thing we need is for this to be turned into another American sponsored coup.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Google "Neda Video". A beautiful young girl apparently shot throw the heart by a Basij sniper while not even participating in the riots. Her death was captured on two different cell phone videos. Harrowing.

Not sure how you determined who shot her. A source I clicked on commented that she "had been shot by police." Looked like a throat shot. A bit tough to tell.

Poor girl. The folks trying to render first aid/stop the bleeding by direct pressure seemed to be applying pressure to her throat area. All that blood was not a good sign.

 

[CapelDodger]

With the actions taken by the regime (I assume there are greater and more widespread violence that hasn't been reported yet) I think it should at the very least be the business of the UN.

It's an internal affair so by definition it isn't UN business. A fundamental tenet of the UN is that it cannot interfere in internal affairs. The sovereign states which founded it wouldn't have it any other way. In fact they wouldn't have accepted the UN at all if it hadn't been neutered at birth.

 

[ddt]

It's an internal affair so by definition it isn't UN business. A fundamental tenet of the UN is that it cannot interfere in internal affairs. The sovereign states which founded it wouldn't have it any other way. In fact they wouldn't have accepted the UN at all if it hadn't been neutered at birth.

I agree wholeheartedly with the first sentence; but not with the "neutered". The UN is an organization of states, so it's concerned with the relations between those states, and it's only logical they shouldn't interfere in internal affairs. That would be a big cession of the states' sovereignty, much bigger than what, e.g., the EU states have ceded to the EU.

Back to Iran: it is reported that Rafsanjani's daughter has been taken into custody.

 

[CapelDodger]

Sometimes people very much want foreign intervention. I don't think this is the case in Iran though.

Absolutely not. I'm sure the people of Zimbabwe would love foreign interference (despite their colonial past) but the Iranians have had quite enough of that. Despite never being formally annexed to an Imperial Power Iran was their playground for a century and a half, first in the Great Game of India between the British and Russian Empires and then as an oil-source. That all ended with the Revolution of '79.

The USA should stay out of this one, for the time being. The last thing we need is for this to be turned into another American sponsored coup.

Those days are long gone, and not just in Iran. The US couldn't even organise a successful coup in Venezuela, which is in its back-yard. The idea that the US "should do something" is so 20thCE.